# Why does Aldebaran get so much stick? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498 "2004-09-07T16:38:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/101 "2004-09-14T17:14:47Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > (who can forget those videos of Arabs dancing joyfully in the streets after 9/11?) support terrorism. The ‘dancing in the street’ footage was debunked on the news as having been shot long before 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![Creative\_Munster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Creative\_Munster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creative_Munster)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/102 "2004-09-15T01:04:43Z")
> [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](#): > > The ‘dancing in the street’ footage was debunked on the news as having been shot long before 9/11. What utter bullshit. That footage is indeed real. Here’s Snopes take on it: [link](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/cnn.htm) ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/103 "2004-09-15T02:51:02Z")
> [@Creative\_Munster](#): > > What utter bullshit. That footage is indeed real. Here’s Snopes take on it: [link](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/cnn.htm) Well, I remember it being reported that way - and certainly some of the ‘celebrating arab’ stories were debunked [11 September Urban Myths & True Oddities, Part 2](http://septterror.tripod.com/emailmyths_2.html) Do the israelis dancing on the New Jersey rooftops after 9/11 not bother you the same way, then? [http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html](http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html) ---
**Author:** ![Necro\_Romancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Necro\_Romancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necro_Romancer)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/104 "2004-09-15T03:06:06Z")
Genocide - the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group. > [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](#): > > I would then suggest that perhaps 99% of all Christians should condemn Bush’s genocide of the Iraqi people… Genocide is not a word to toss around. You belittle the victims’ experiences and anger their friends and family. ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/105 "2004-09-15T03:31:17Z")
> [@Necro Romancer](#): > > Genocide is not a word to toss around. You belittle the victims’ experiences and anger their friends and family. I doubt if the victims of Bush’n Blair’s unncessary war in Iraq, or their surviving friends and family, would argue with the word ‘genocide’. One of too many links on the topic [http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4793.htm](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4793.htm) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/106 "2004-09-15T04:03:20Z")
> [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](#): > > I doubt if the victims of Bush’n Blair’s unncessary war in Iraq, or their surviving friends and family, would argue with the word ‘genocide’. One of too many links on the topic It seems I glossed over that word when I read it… As **NecroRomancer** points out, Genocide has a very specific denotation, although the connotation may be used a bit fast-and-loose (in error, I believe.) While I do think Shrubco is being very callous in terms of the loss of human, especially civilian life, I do not think they have planned the extermination of the entire Iraqi people. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2004, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/107 "2004-09-15T13:48:51Z")
> [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](#): > > Do the israelis dancing on the New Jersey rooftops after 9/11 not bother you the same way, then? [http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html](http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html) Might you you have a link to a site other than one claiming “The history the government hopes you DON’T learn”? ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/108 "2004-09-15T14:41:15Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > Might you you have a link to a site other than one claiming “The history the government hopes you DON’T learn”? Well, you could try Google, where you’ll get over 3000 hits - a couple of which are [http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1102-07.htm](http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1102-07.htm) [http://ww1.sundayherald.com/37707](http://ww1.sundayherald.com/37707) ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/109 "2004-09-15T15:03:29Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > While I do think Shrubco is being very callous in terms of the loss of human, especially civilian life, I do not think they have planned the extermination of the entire Iraqi people. While I would hope that our government didn’t **plan** on genocide - it seems to have occurred as an effect of their invasion of Iraq. If our governments’ intention really was to bring them **freedom** then I think they’ve failed miserably.[http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/iraq/](http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/iraq/) As a matter of interest, though, what percentage of the population would need to be wiped out before you would class it as “genocide”? If even a whole village is wiped out, is that not genocide? Haven’t we strayed a bit from the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Creative\_Munster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Creative\_Munster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creative_Munster)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/110 "2004-09-15T20:15:08Z")
> [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](#): > > Haven’t we strayed a bit from the OP? You’ve strayed a great deal from any logic or credibility quite a while ago. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/111 "2004-09-16T04:12:00Z")
> [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](#): > > Well, you could try Google, where you’ll get over 3000 hits - a couple of which are > [http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1102-07.htm](http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1102-07.htm) > [http://ww1.sundayherald.com/37707](http://ww1.sundayherald.com/37707) GAH! Not again ☹ [Commondreams.org](http://Commondreams.org) is, get this, NOT A CITE! As has already been pointed out to you, [Snopes.com](http://Snopes.com) handled this question. A link to a political website is not a legitimate rebuttual. If you have actual **factual** , rather than **opinion** , cites to prove your point, provide them, or go away. Toddles off to take my blood pressure medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/112 "2004-09-16T09:35:51Z")
Wait, wait… you mean… you mean my 3,000 sites that prove conclusively that NASA staged the moon landings in the desert are… what… possibly no good!? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/113 "2004-09-16T11:57:46Z")
I can’t believe this thread is still rumbling on. What I **really** can’t believe, though is this: > [@Evil Captor](#): > > I know that besides Aldeberan there are many thoughtful and civilized Muslims in the world who hate terrorism as much as or more than we do. But there are many, many more Muslims who secretly, and sometimes not-so-secretly (who can forget those videos of Arabs dancing joyfully in the streets after 9/11?) support terrorism. Are you being remotely serious? 'Cos if so, you are probably the most ill-inforemed person on the planet. Are you trying to tell me that _the great majority_ (paraphrased, but that is the true meaning of your words) of Muslims support terrorism? If so, there is no hope for you. If that’s the way your brain works you may as well give up breathing now. Seriously. You will never get a clue, so just stop trying. “Fighting ignorance since 1973” is just a meaningless blur of pixels to you, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/114 "2004-09-16T12:45:36Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > GAH! Not again ☹ > > [Commondreams.org](http://Commondreams.org) is, get this, NOT A CITE! Gosh, I’m so sorry, Milroyj - how could I possibly have forgotten **this** thread - [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=274735&page=1&pp=50](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=274735&page=1&pp=50) where you appointed yourself sole SDMB arbiter of what is a cite and what isn’t! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/115 "2004-09-16T14:13:56Z")
> [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](#): > > [http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1102-07.htm](http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1102-07.htm) > [http://ww1.sundayherald.com/37707](http://ww1.sundayherald.com/37707) [ABC News paints a sligtly different picture](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html). ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/116 "2004-09-17T03:37:15Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Wait, wait… you mean… you mean my 3,000 sites that prove conclusively that NASA staged the moon landings in the desert are… what… possibly no good!? ☹ That’s what one would think, but, as long as they are “Views for the Progressive Community”, your “sites” would get a free pass, 'round here. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/117 "2004-09-18T17:29:20Z")
About the “videos”. There is at least one that filmed some Palestinians showing to be happy for something that happened in the USA. It would be most unusual if such outbursts of joy would not have happened in the Territories. There are many things said and written about that. One of these things is that it shows mostly children (true to a certain extend of these first reports) and related to that there was a claim that they were given candy by militants and told to start screaming and rejoicing (most dubious claim I heard off, but that they were instigated to do this is a possibility). An other claim is that the people in the Territories were not informed about the real nature of the event. They only knew “something” happened to the hated USA (you can’t blame them one second to hate the USA). That is a claim I can come into when it goes about footage filmed right after the events. About other so called “dancing and rejoicing Muslims” no matter where they are claimed to be filmed: Certainly some of these pictures can be genuine, yet most certainly many of these videos are edited and have material in them that goes as far back as more then 10 years. Material that has even nothing to do with the ME region. I know that because I happened to have quite a few of that same material and hence I knew where and when it was filmed. I even could easily recognize children who must long have been adults the day they were brought up as “dancing because of 9/11”. (They were not dancing. They were war refugees and not even in the ME.) How this could end up as “dancing/celebrating Muslims” is one of the great questions of our Media Fantasy Time. (Must be because some of the the women were wearing a scarf.) Same counts for pictures in popular publications (magazines). I saw even pictures of Shia celebrating ashura, that were sold as “terrorists” covered in blood “screaming and celebrating” (no joke). Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/118 "2004-09-18T17:32:40Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > I think part of the reason Aldeberan gets so much stick is that although he has in fact evolved into a poster who can communicate clearly and rationally on matters relating to Islam (most of the time) to many of us his words represent an attempt to put a civilized mask over extremely uncivilized behavior. > > I know that besides Aldeberan there are many thoughtful and civilized Muslims in the world who hate terrorism as much as or more than we do. But there are many, many more Muslims who secretly, and sometimes not-so-secretly (who can forget those videos of Arabs dancing joyfully in the streets after 9/11?) support terrorism. While we are willing to debate Aldeberan and others in the manner they deserve, it’s hard not to forget all the violence – almost invariably directed at the innocent – that Muslim terrorists employ, and the attitude of many Muslims that this is a just and good thing. Explanations or apologies for such behavior, no matter how civil or rational, tend not to go very far. If this is expressing a consensus around here, I don’t see why I should bother to spend my time on explaining Islam and related issues. Even cyberspace-masochism has its limits. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/119 "2004-09-18T18:20:42Z")
You sure? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/120 "2004-09-18T22:35:31Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > If this is expressing a consensus around here, I don’t see why I should bother to spend my time on explaining Islam and related issues. > Even cyberspace-masochism has its limits. > Salaam. A C’mon, Aldeberan. People rarely agree with me on ANYTHING outside atheism and what a sick fuck Bush is. YOU agree with me about Bush. But ya think my opinions oin general represent a consensus? I’ve seen no evidence of it. I do think I’m right, however. People can recognize that there’s a difference between ordinary Muslims and terrorists but still have deep misgivings about Islam because it seems so productive, terrorist-wise. I’ve read accounts by Muslim writers who think Muslims need to acknowledge that they’ve produced a lot of bad boys and deal with it before they can communicate effectively with the rest of us. I’m willing to admit that the U.S.'s war with Iraq was pointless unless you think there’s a point to a naked oil grab, and I’m ready to deliver Bush, Rummy, Cheney and Rice to an international war crimes tribunal as fast as we can get one convened. Hell, I’ll throw in Ashcroft since his Justice Dept. worked on legal cover for the torture at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere. See how easy that was? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498.md?page=5)