# Why does anti-Semitism among Westerners/Western-educated people have such staying power today? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 1, 2020, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712 "2020-01-01T10:51:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/21 "2020-01-01T18:51:30Z")
Hatred of Hispanics certainly worked out well for Trump in 2016. There are way more Hispanics than Jews in the US. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/22 "2020-01-01T20:47:54Z")
Fredirich Nietzsche observed his very anti-Semitic sister and labeled her condition a “brain disease” - not a mental (spychic) disorder, but implying an organic, physiological cause. We know that brain damage is linked to “mystic experiences”. I’ll suggest that some human brains are structured to demand a target to hate with holy fury. Why Jews? Along with impoverished Romany, Jews are the traditional “others” of Europe. Xians, no matter how devout, blame Jews, not Italians, as “Christ-killers”, who thus are acceptable targets. Any excuse is handy for slaughter and theft. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/23 "2020-01-01T20:52:33Z")
Racists aren’t very smart or creative. When looking round for someone to hate and blame, they just go off the opinions of the people who are already hating and blaming someone, about who the proper hate and blame targets are. So the anti-Semites today are due to the anti-Semites ten years ago. Who are due to the anti-Semites ten years before that. Who are due to the anti-Semites ten years before that. Who are due to… ---
**Author:** ![fedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@fedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/24 "2020-01-01T21:58:29Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Insert _3(a): But it IS working for some of “those outsiders”_ (with the implicit: which should never happen as long as one of “us” is not making it). Somehow the antisemite never seems to summon forth the image of some Jewish guy who’s just some workaday bloke like you or I, it’s always someone getting an advantage. > > In the case of the West, this then of course gets tied in with the element of the Jews going through centuries retaining a distinct religiocultural identity, so they never stop being “different” and they are always there for the next wave of scapegoating. Which has the perverse self-reinforcing effect of some people then arguing “well, the accusation that they’re up to no good has been going on for centuries; there’s got to be something about it” :rolleyes: > > Which combines, noxiously, with the idea that in Western societies you can’t tell “the Jew” on sight on the street if they’re not wearing traditional garments/styles, so there’s the feeling that they are “infiltrated” among the “Real (Insert Nationality Here)” population who are the only ones who should count… which ties in with… > > Yet, they are seen as violating the “Model Minority” archetype by not “knowing their place” WRT the reservation of influence and power to the majority identity group, and of course, even though it may not be mentioned in polite company, by the failure to fully assimilate and melt into the base. “But couldn’t you try _not being Jewish_?” as it were. and in US both before and after Pollard case, people wondered about Jewish loyalty to Israel over US ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/25 "2020-01-01T22:08:55Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Christians feel inferior to Jews, something that does not apply to other minority groups. Jews are described as having superior intelligence that Christians can’t ever compete with, thus Jews will eventually control everything on earth. Judaism is also seen as a superior religion to Christianity OK, what…? What Christian circles are you in that you see this? I have been in more Christian churches/groups/organizations than I can count and have never encountered a sentiment remotely like this. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/26 "2020-01-01T22:37:22Z")
I think there is a large psychological component. Christians have been oppressing Jews officially and unofficially for two millennia. Yet the Jews not only survive, they often thrive and proper. This has to be infuriating to some. And therefore suspicious. How can Jews grow rich and successful even though there is institutional bias against them? Obviously the answer must be that there is a conspiracy to make them rich and successful; it can’t be that they achieve it on their own. Such a circular conspiracy theory is fascinatingly insidious. It accounts for everything and is not susceptible to disproof. Moreover, the better Jews do the more convincing the theory becomes. Bonus points: it means that if anything goes wrong for the CTers, the Jews can be blamed. Instant scapegoat, just add prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/27 "2020-01-02T02:28:49Z")
Although all the posts have made valid points, they are missing the question raised by the OP, namely why the recent sharp rise in antisemitism. It is a good question and I am less than certain as to the answer. In the US, Trump has normalized racism and that can never be good for the Jews. But that doesn’t explain Europe and it doesn’t explain left-wing antisemitism anywhere. To some extent, the appalling government in Israel has given Jews in general a bad odor. But people don’t realize that most Jews feel that Israel is the only place in the world that they can turn to if another Hitler arises. So we may not like the current Israeli government but most of us cannot give up the idea that Israel should exist. That is my explanation for the rise of left wing antisemitism, but it leaves unanswered why it has become so popular on the right, especially in Europe. I can only concur, without a great deal of conviction, in the suggestion that as the holocaust recedes from memory the old antisemitism reasserts itself. It has been there for 1800 years and the churches–many of them–still embrace it. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/28 "2020-01-02T02:45:13Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > OK, what…? What Christian circles are you in that you see this? > > I have been in more Christian churches/groups/organizations than I can count and have never encountered a sentiment remotely like this. They aren’t very good at radicalizing anti-Semites are they? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/29 "2020-01-02T02:52:41Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > OK, what…? What Christian circles are you in that you see this? > > I have been in more Christian churches/groups/organizations than I can count and have never encountered a sentiment remotely like this. Same here. Much of this thread sounds like it was written by Martians, totally alien to my experience. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/30 "2020-01-02T02:53:51Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Although all the posts have made valid points, they are missing the question raised by the OP, namely why the recent sharp rise in antisemitism. It may have been answered already, albeit obliquely. > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > It is a good question and I am less than certain as to the answer. In the US, Trump has normalized racism and that can never be good for the Jews. Ironically, he has normalized racism at a time when many religious conservatives who support him also enable ultra-right wing Jews in Israel. The effect of this is that he is encouraging Israel’s right wing to engage in behavior that makes Israel look really, really bad to much of the world, even in the eyes of people who have supported Israel in the past. And to be clear, I realize that there are many Israelis and many Jews who are repulsed by Netanyahu, but just as Trump makes all of America look bad, Netanyahu is a black eye to Israel and those who support a Jewish homeland, whether we want to acknowledge that or not. It’s unfortunate. Another factor is that we are moving further and further away from the post-WWII world. Fewer Americans, fewer Europeans are alive to remember the horrors of the Holocaust. Fewer people remember 1948 and 1967. Americans are becoming more and more isolationist anyway, so it’s no surprise that a lot of Americans don’t see the value of aiding Israel. > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > But that doesn’t explain Europe and it doesn’t explain left-wing antisemitism anywhere. To some extent, the appalling government in Israel has given Jews in general a bad odor. That’s certainly part of it, but I also think that the real culprit, the real danger is that among ethnic majorities (i.e. whites) in the West, there has been a questioning of liberalism, which is partly what drove antisemitism in the 19th Century. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/31 "2020-01-02T03:09:56Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Same here. Much of this thread sounds like it was written by Martians, totally alien to my experience. It should be unless you’re hanging around with Nazis and other hate groups. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/32 "2020-01-02T03:38:49Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > It has been there for 1800 years and the churches–many of them–still embrace it. 1800 years? Antisemitism existed long before there was a such thing as Christianity. That’s the point - it’s old and pervasive and isn’t tied to any particular religion or creed or political ideology. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/33 "2020-01-02T05:44:10Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > They aren’t very good at radicalizing anti-Semites are they? > [@TriPolar](#): > > It should be unless you’re hanging around with Nazis and other hate groups. Neither of these responses does anything to answer the question you were asked. In post #2 you wrote a response with claims about Christian beliefs that have absolutely nothing to with actual Christian beliefs in reality. Two posters have asked you to back up what you wrote with evidence, which you’ve thus far totally failed to do. I’ll be the third to make the same request: do you have any evidence to offer for what you wrote in #2, or what it just intended as a bunch of deliberately offensive nonsense? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/34 "2020-01-02T12:57:56Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > 1800 years? Antisemitism existed long before there was a such thing as Christianity. That’s the point - it’s old and pervasive and isn’t tied to any particular religion or creed or political ideology. It’s not tied to one religion in particular, but I don’t think there’s any denying the fact that the rise of other religions that, in a sense, compete with Judaism has been a major factor historically. Without Christianity and Islam, Jews would probably still probably be regarded as cultural ‘others,’ but it was the highly influential German (Western) religious reformer Martin Luther who simultaneously wrote about the “Jews and their Lies,” authoring themes that Nazi Germany returned to 400 years later. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/35 "2020-01-02T15:05:23Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Neither of these responses does anything to answer the question you were asked. In post #2 you wrote a response with claims about Christian beliefs that have absolutely nothing to with actual Christian beliefs in reality. Two posters have asked you to back up what you wrote with evidence, which you’ve thus far totally failed to do. I’ll be the third to make the same request: do you have any evidence to offer for what you wrote in #2, or what it just intended as a bunch of deliberately offensive nonsense? I’m writing about anti-Semitism and some of the mythology used in radicalizing Christians. Now, are you saying that this is not how you became a radicalized anti-Semite? I think I sense part of the problem right here, anti-Semitism is not about Christianity, sorry if you and your beliefs aren’t the subject here. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Sponge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dark_sponge/32/121_2.png) [@Dark\_Sponge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Sponge)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/36 "2020-01-02T16:58:04Z")
The hate is strange not because it exists but because it seems to be increasing vs previous years. Maybe Holocaust-related sympathy is starting to die off? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/37 "2020-01-02T23:17:02Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’m writing about anti-Semitism and some of the mythology used in radicalizing Christians. Now, are you saying that this is not how you became a radicalized anti-Semite? I think I sense part of the problem right here, anti-Semitism is not about Christianity, sorry if you and your beliefs aren’t the subject here. Your entire post #2, which is what people are :dubious: about, ascribes beliefs to Christianity as a whole. Those beliefs are not found in any Christian denomination, I suspect not even in fringe denominations. Even Anti-Semitic Christians do not believe that “Judaism is a superior religion to Christianity”. Certainly mainstream Christians don’t. If they did they’d convert. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/38 "2020-01-02T23:23:38Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Your entire post #2, which is what people are :dubious: about, ascribes beliefs to Christianity as a whole. Those beliefs are not found in any Christian denomination, I suspect not even in fringe denominations. Even Anti-Semitic Christians do not believe that “Judaism is a superior religion to Christianity”. Certainly mainstream Christians don’t. If they did they’d convert. Once again, not Christian belief, anti-Semitic propaganda. Don’t be so vain, my posts are not about you. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/39 "2020-01-03T00:17:01Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Once again, not Christian belief, anti-Semitic propaganda. Don’t be so vain, my posts are not about you. Obviously not, since I’m not a Christian or an anti-Semite. You are being hopelessly incoherent and wrong here, but I have a suspicion that further engagement is pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/40 "2020-01-03T01:27:05Z")
Was there really “anti-Semitism” in the pre-Christian world? Like, not just Romans or Greeks thinking that the Judeans were a dumb backwards tribe like all the other tribes their empires came into contact with, but actually thinking that the Jews, specifically, were _wicked_ and that they collectively conspired to harm non-Jews? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712.md?page=3)