# Why does anti-Semitism among Westerners/Western-educated people have such staying power today? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 1, 2020, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712 "2020-01-01T10:51:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/41 "2020-01-03T01:45:24Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > OK, what…? What Christian circles are you in that you see this? > > I have been in more Christian churches/groups/organizations than I can count and have never encountered a sentiment remotely like this. Same here. I’ve spent a good chunk of my life around people of multiple protestant faiths from progressive to orthodox, and I have never seen this. I haven’t seen any anti-semitism among them at all. The Jews are God’s chosen people. To be anti-semitic against Jews would be an affront to God. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/42 "2020-01-03T02:49:46Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > The hate is strange not because it exists but because it seems to be increasing vs previous years. Maybe Holocaust-related sympathy is starting to die off? That “seems to be” may be very misleading, even if widely believed. _Expressions_ of hate, and hate crimes are up … across the board … coincident with Trump’s tenure and the validation of their expression he, and the alt-Right globally, has given. But I’ve seen no evidence that hateful beliefs (inclusive but not limited to Jew-hating) have actually increased. Those with the hateful beliefs are more emboldened to state them out loud, to post them on social media, and to act on them in violent ways. It would be very strange for other minority hate expression to increase without Jew-hating expression to increase as well. BTW the '50s were a much more endemic anti-Semitism time in the U.S. than is now. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/43 "2020-01-03T04:15:44Z")
[Here’s a thread from 2012](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=665938) discussing persistence of anti-Semitism (curiously, Dopers were concerned about that long before Trump was elected). This particular disease has been endemic for a very, very long time. It tends to flare up, or at least become more noticeable for a variety of reasons, including economic stresses (where it’s helpful to have a scapegoat) and nationalist fervor. I’m not so sure it’s all that more prevalent now than it was (for instance) 20 or 50 years ago. One encouraging sign is that there seems to be considerably less overt and subtle anti-Semitism on the Dope compared to the olden days (especially ten or more years ago). Posters who indulged in it (sometimes hiding behind anti-Israel fervor), while Just Asking Questions about “Jewish domination of Hollywood” or expressing angst about “chosen people” have either vanished, been banned for various reasons or moved on to other subjects. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/44 "2020-01-03T04:28:05Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Same here. I’ve spent a good chunk of my life around people of multiple protestant faiths from progressive to orthodox, and I have never seen this. I haven’t seen any anti-semitism among them at all. The Jews are God’s chosen people. To be anti-semitic against Jews would be an affront to God. So who are the anti-semitic types in America then? From the way you worded your post, you seem to be implying that they are all Catholics. I have my doubts about that. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/45 "2020-01-03T04:49:24Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > So who are the anti-semitic types in America then? From the way you worded your post, you seem to be implying that they are all Catholics. For what it’s worth, I did _not_ get \*that \*from **Sam** ’s post, but rather just that what he was familiar with were **“_progressive_ to orthodox”** Protestants, as in beliefs/cultural attitudes. This as a way of seconding the reaction of most of us not having encounterer the lines of propaganda that **TriPolar** poses as examples of ways antisemitic radicalization spreads among the Christian communities. But from my side, who was raised and educated in Catholic schools – OK, post-Vat II, I’ll concede that – I can also report I did not see those peculiar lines of propaganda seeking to spread it. When I encountered it it was just traditional old-fashioned money-grubbing power-brokering Christ-killer not-one-of-us libel. For sure nothing expressing an insecurity about Jews having an intrinsic intellectual _and theological_ advantage. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/46 "2020-01-03T05:21:21Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > [Here’s a thread from 2012](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=665938) discussing persistence of anti-Semitism (curiously, Dopers were concerned about that long before Trump was elected). > > This particular disease has been endemic for a very, very long time. It tends to flare up, or at least become more noticeable for a variety of reasons, including economic stresses (where it’s helpful to have a scapegoat) and nationalist fervor. I’m not so sure it’s all that more prevalent now than it was (for instance) 20 or 50 years ago. > > One encouraging sign is that there seems to be considerably less overt and subtle anti-Semitism on the Dope compared to the olden days (especially ten or more years ago). Posters who indulged in it (sometimes hiding behind anti-Israel fervor), while Just Asking Questions about “Jewish domination of Hollywood” or expressing angst about “chosen people” have either vanished, been banned for various reasons or moved on to other subjects. I can’t speak for Dopers but speaking for myself I have _always_ been concerned about anti-Semitism. Nevertheless there is no debating that [anti-Semitic incidents](https://www.adl.org/audit2018#major-findings) have _doubled_ since that thread was active in 2012, specifically spiking in 2016 to 2017 and leveling in 2018. (Numbers not available yet for 2019.) The economy was doing fine in 2016 and 2017. What changed in the United States in 2016? In terms of anti-Semitic _beliefs_ - the data ([as tracked by the ADL](https://www.adl.org/news/press-releases/in-first-new-adl-poll-finds-majority-of-americans-concerned-about-violence)) is “a pronounced decline in anti-Jewish attitudes in the last 50 years.” It is good news is that a majority of Americans are concerned about violence directed at American Jews and even more about the violence directed at Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/47 "2020-01-03T07:13:25Z")
I was long ago invited to moderate a “conspiracy” forum; my brief was to inject some reality into the madness. I stuck it out awhile but eventually quit because EVERY conspiracy devolved into Jew-blaming. Every single one. Doesn’t matter if the nominal actors were British royals, ET aliens, Chinese tongs, or whatever - it’s all Jews’ fault. Why? I’ll go with Nietzsche: brain disease. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/48 "2020-01-03T14:53:22Z")
I don’t know anyone who is anti\_jewish people. Criticizing Israel and their policies or government is called anti=semitic just to silence people. imho. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/49 "2020-01-03T16:34:01Z")
A poll in the October 12, 2019 offers a detailed breakdown of anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic attitudes in the US and Britain; including numbers for left and right wing parties. In general, it concludes that in Britain the far left and right criticize Israel but the right is more anti-Semitic. In America, Liberals and Conservatives are equally anti-Semitic but few on the right criticize Israel. Specific questions show 10-40% of people reflecting negative attitudes to various issues, with higher numbers reflecting policies of the Israeli government. As to a resurgence of these views, I think liberal immigration ideas caused a lot of negative opinion in Europe. These views have always been present in the political mainstream in many countries. However, populism and demagoguery feeds on blaming another and minimizing self-examination. Many countries soft-pedalled these views due to fear of seeming intolerant, so Trump’s praise of dictators and people without compassion have been unhelpful. That said, in high profile cases many countries have tried to do the right thing, as recently in West Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/50 "2020-01-03T19:52:40Z")
Sorry, bad editing. There is a decent poll and graphical feature in The Economist, the October 12, 2019 edition. It takes information from a Jewish research group. I would appreciate it if someone could link it (which I find awkward to do on my phone). The article is entitled “Drawing the line between anti-Semitism and Criticism of Israel”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/51 "2020-01-03T20:19:08Z")
[Here you go.](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/10/12/drawing-the-line-between-anti-semitism-and-criticism-of-israel) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/52 "2020-01-03T20:30:34Z")
Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/53 "2020-01-04T05:53:31Z")
> [@Staggerlee](#): > > 1. Left-wingers objecting to Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians leading to conflation of the state of Israel and the Jewish people in general. It’s important to make the distinction though. Because I see a lot of people, particularly in the US, equating criticism of Israel / Israeli government policy with anti-semitism, which of course it is not. But, yes, I agree some people conflate distaste for some such policies with Jews in general. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/54 "2020-01-04T17:36:13Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Because I see a lot of people, particularly in the US, equating criticism of Israel / Israeli government policy with anti-semitism When this occurs, it’s generally when criticism is vehemently one-sided _and_ accompanied by anti-Semitic tropes, i.e. “it’s all about the Benjamins”. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/55 "2020-01-04T19:50:35Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > I don’t know anyone who is anti\_jewish people. Criticizing Israel and their policies or government is called anti=semitic just to silence people. imho. I am glad to hear that none of your personal acquaintances are anti-Semitic. If what you mean is that nobody else is either, however, I think the congregation of Tree of Life (among others) might want to have a word with you. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/56 "2020-01-04T20:37:55Z")
Based on that Economist graphic some things worth noting - Almost 8% of Americans surveyed endorsed “strongly anti-Semitic beliefs” and the majority of them also endorsed “strongly anti-Israel beliefs” as well. The rates of endorsed “strongly anti-Semitic beliefs” and “both” is not very different between liberals, moderates, and conservatives. The difference between the groups is that there are more liberals who endorse “strongly anti-Israel beliefs” who are not anti-Semitic, but let’s be clear, there is a sizable minority (28%) who are. And as **Jackmanni** opines that minority tends to have their tells. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/57 "2020-01-04T22:35:04Z")
The Economist article is a good one. But I am not quite sure where **DSeid** is getting the number 28%. The distinction between anti-Israel government policy and anti-Semitism may be conflated but it is important. In Canada, 19% of human rights complaints are against Jews, the highest group. And these complaints have risen 16% in one year. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/58 "2020-01-04T23:00:25Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > … I am not quite sure where **DSeid** is getting the number 28%. … For liberals in America total in the “strongly anti-Israel beliefs” circle is 180. 50 of that 180 is in the “both” section (the intersection of the Venn diagram) 130 are in the “strongly anti-Israel beliefs” and not in the “highly anti-Semitic” circle too. 50/180 is 28%. This is very straight forward math. Liberals who are anti-Israel are sometimes anti-Semites, 28% of the time. Anti-Semites who are liberals (per that data nearly as many of them as there are conservatives who are anti-Semites) are usually anti-Israel. It would be unfair to portray being critical of Israeli government policy as anti-Semitic (and in fact many Jews, including many Zionistic Jews, are critical of Israeli government policy) as anti-Semitic. It would however be very naive to believe that many anti-Semites do not wrap their anti-Semitism in a thin cloak of anti-Israel rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712/59 "2020-01-04T23:17:09Z")
It can also be noted that for Americans who are not liberals, moderates and conservatives put together, there is a 50/50 chance that someone having “strongly anti-Israel beliefs” also has “strongly anti-Semitic beliefs” Once again a presumption of good faith is justified but if you are not seeing any clear anti-Semites among those who are expressing anti-Israel beliefs you are ignoring what is clearly there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-anti-semitism-among-westerners-western-educated-people-have-such-staying-power-today/845712.md?page=2)