# Why does castrating yourself make you ineligible to be a Priest? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2005, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219 "2005-01-23T05:47:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/1 "2005-01-23T05:47:19Z")
From the [First Council of Nicæa (A.D. 325](http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3801.htm) > [@](#): > > THE CANONS > > Canon 1. If any one in sickness has been subjected by physicians to a surgical operation, or if he has been castrated by barbarians, let him remain among the clergy; but, if any one in sound health has castrated himself, it behoves that such an one, if [already] enrolled among the clergy, should cease [from his ministry], and that from henceforth no such person should be promoted. But, as it is evident that this is said of those who wilfully do the thing and presume to castrate themselves, so if any have been made eunuchs by barbarians, or by their masters, and should otherwise be found worthy, such men the Canon admits to the clergy. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/2 "2005-01-23T05:49:22Z")
“I never held with Origen. Besides, it hurt my great-toe most confoundedly!” A shiny new dime to the Doper who places that! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/3 "2005-01-23T05:53:01Z")
> [@astro](#): > > From the [First Council of Nicæa (A.D. 325](http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3801.htm) Most likely because even the early Church recognized that lobbing your own walnuts off was pretty fucked up, and would make even the LORD wince and say, ‘Dude, WTF?’ Just a guess. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/4 "2005-01-23T06:12:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > “I never held with Origen. Besides, it hurt my great-toe most confoundedly!” > > A shiny new dime to the Doper who places that! 🙂 [Why Jurgen did the manly thing](http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/CABELL/ch01.htm) ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/5 "2005-01-23T06:18:52Z")
Just a WAG, but I’d guess it’s because a priest who castrated himself was A. mutilating God’s creation and working against God’s will and B. cutting himself off (no pun intended) from God’s Gift of celibacy. If one is incapable of meeting the trial of sexual arousal with the church approved methods, then one is not worthy of remaining clergy. Refusing God’s Gift is tantamount to blasphemy. It’s nice to see that they were considerate enough to allow those castrated against their will to remain clergy, however. More than I would have expected, but it’s in line with the WAGs above. If it wasn’t the priest’s weakness, but actions outside his control, then he cannot be held responsible in the same manner. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/6 "2005-01-23T06:33:37Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Most likely because even the early Church recognized that lobbing your own walnuts off was pretty fucked up, and would make even the LORD wince and say, ‘Dude, WTF?’ Just a guess. I’d pay good money to see a supreme being say “Dude, WTF?” Dope 3 Chapter 12 37 And Jesus saw that the man had removed his nuts. And Jesus said “Yo pop, check that out” 38 Looking upon the sight of the man who Had Castrated Himself God said “Dude, What the Fuck?” 39 This man who wanted to join the flock was hereafter prevented from joining the fold. 40 Looking at this man, The Lord said “That shit is whack, yo!” 41 Jesus Wept. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/7 "2005-01-23T06:54:15Z")
Seriously, there was an OT law that prevented a castrated man from even entering the temple, IIRC. It probably stems from that somehow. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/8 "2005-01-23T07:08:49Z")
I would actually hazard the guess it relates to the priesthood of one of the eastern religions castrating themselves [though IIRC by the time it got legalized in Roma Eterna they were substituting mock castration instead of the real deal] and early christianity frequently made rules against anything remotely pagan in origen. It is 0230 and I am way to tired to google which proesthood it was, but they had a big celebration that had a precession and sacrificed bulls, followed by the ceremonial whackingsoff of the acolytes members. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/9 "2005-01-23T08:25:01Z")
The priests of Cybele were the most prominent practitioners of self-castration. "Cybele begins life as Agdisthus, a hermaphroditic God/dess. Because Agdisthus scared the other gods, Dionysos snuck up on the sleeping Agdisthus and tied the Agdisthus’ penis to a tree. When Agdisthus woke up, the phallus engorged, and sudden movement severed it. Rather than crippling Agdisthus, this act changes her/him into Cybele, the great mother of the gods. A pomegranate tree grew up from Agdisthus’ blood, and when a river nymph named Nana ate a pomegranate from the tree, she became pregnant and gave birth to Attis, who then becomes Cybele’s lover. " [Myth of Cybele](http://www.bcholmes.org/wicca/myths/cybele.html) “In 204 B.C.E the goddess Cybele was brought to Rome from Pessinus in the form of a meteorite. This was prompted by the threat posed by Hannibal’s presence in Italy and the answers both of the Sibylline Books and the oracle of Delphi. She was welcomed as a national goddess by virtue of Rome’s supposed Trojan roots. However, Cybele brought with her Attis and her priests, the Galli. Roman sensibilities were shocked by the ecstatic frenzies during which worshipers were possessed to castrate themselves. Until the reign of Claudius these and other disturbing practices were ‘contained’ through various measures. In this manner the Romans tried to deal with the problem of a national goddess with very ‘oriental’ features to her worship. Cybele was revered while Attis was reviled.” [From this page](http://www.angelfire.com/pq/philologos/Cybele.html) ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/10 "2005-01-23T22:32:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Just a WAG, but I’d guess it’s because a priest who castrated himself was A. mutilating God’s creation and working against God’s will and B. cutting himself off (no pun intended) from God’s Gift of celibacy. Bingo. There were two choices for a cleric: marry before ordination, or celibacy and continence. Self-castration, like suicide, is taking the easy way out and harming or killing one’s body as well. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/11 "2005-01-23T22:34:32Z")
> [@](#): > > When Agdisthus woke up, the phallus engorged, and sudden movement severed it. That must have been hellacious morning wood. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2005, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/12 "2005-01-23T23:39:43Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Seriously, there was an OT law that prevented a castrated man from even entering the temple, IIRC. It probably stems from that somehow. IIRC what the law actually does is forbid any self-castrated man from marrying a Jewish woman. I know **Zev** has addressed this in detail in somethreadoranother. Back To The OP I thought Matthew 19:12 Says “. . . have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. . . . He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.” [Matthew 19:12 - For there are eunuchs who were born - Bible Gateway](http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Matthew%2019:12), Huh, a quick check of other sites indicates that the passage is often translated “renounced marriage” Anybody in this thread speak Greek? I believe that part of the answer is pragmatism. If castration is viewed as a holy state, you end up with too many followers removing their own gonads. That slows the spread of Christianity, and could even end it (There is a good reason why the Quakers are still around and the Shakers are not). A priest must act as an example. If despite his vows making his testes unnecessary, he still retained them, then the congregation would know that they can enter the kingdom of heaven with functioning genitalia. The clergy could then direct the faithful to those passages about being fruitful and multiplying. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/13 "2005-01-24T00:34:19Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > IIRC what the law actually does is forbid any self-castrated man from marrying a Jewish woman. I know **Zev** has addressed this in detail in somethreadoranother. > > Back To The OP > > I thought Matthew 19:12 Says “. . . have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. . . . He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.” > > [Matthew 19:12 - For there are eunuchs who were born - Bible Gateway](http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Matthew%2019:12), > > Huh, a quick check of other sites indicates that the passage is often translated “renounced marriage” > > Anybody in this thread speak Greek? > > I believe that part of the answer is pragmatism. If castration is viewed as a holy state, you end up with too many followers removing their own gonads. That slows the spread of Christianity, and could even end it (There is a good reason why the Quakers are still around and the Shakers are not). A priest must act as an example. If despite his vows making his testes unnecessary, he still retained them, then the congregation would know that they can enter the kingdom of heaven with functioning genitalia. The clergy could then direct the faithful to those passages about being fruitful and multiplying. The word in question is definitely “eunuchs” (or the Greek for it, which I don’t happen to know). But several reliable commentaries say that it was accurate Koiné to use it metaphorically, meaning either ‘celibate mysogynist’ or ‘homosexual’ (by inclination), not the literal meaning of “gonadless.” ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/14 "2005-01-24T02:52:04Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Why does castrating yourself make you ineligible to be a Priest? Neat trick. How do you do that? ---
**Author:** ![Tenar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@Tenar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenar)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/15 "2005-01-24T03:07:35Z")
> [@spingears](#): > > Neat trick. How do you do that? Google “self castration” and you will learn far more than you ever wanted to know. And apparently, [it’s catching on!](http://www.bettybowers.com/newscastration.html) ---
**Author:** ![Tenar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@Tenar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenar)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/16 "2005-01-24T03:20:03Z")
Whoops. I begin to suspect that the article I linked to may have been a spoof. I’m still unsure, frankly. If it is, my apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/17 "2005-01-24T03:40:38Z")
> [@Tenar](#): > > Whoops. I begin to suspect that the article I linked to may have been a spoof. I’m still unsure, frankly. If it is, my apologies. The fact that one of the people mentioned in the article is named “Judy O’Christian” should’ve clued you in. Well, that and 1,087 men spontaneously self-castrating after hearing what must’ve been one heck of an inspirational sermon. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/18 "2005-01-24T03:55:53Z")
But wasn’t it the Vatican that started the Castrati? How do they justify that? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/19 "2005-01-24T04:25:20Z")
I just gotta chime in and say that reading this thread is making my gonads hurt… and I have indoor plumbing. Yeouch. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219/20 "2005-01-24T06:10:40Z")
> [@](#): > > But wasn’t it the Vatican that started the Castrati? How do they justify that? Two things to remember about the castrati: 1. They weren’t usually clerics. 2. They weren’t self-castrated – they were castrated as children, before puberty set in. By the time they would be old enough to make the decision for their own, it would be too late for the procedure to be of any use. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-castrating-yourself-make-you-ineligible-to-be-a-priest/286219.md?page=2)