Why does Cecil Adams refuse to be photographed?

[Exapno_Mapcase]

@Gadarene

I just don’t understand the point of carrying on the charade. It seems insulting to everybody’s intelligence.

Exactly.

If people would say “of course Ed is Cecil but let’s play the game” I wouldn’t mind. But both Una and Dex went out of their way to dissemble. (Another word I don’t get to use enough.) I wouldn’t accept Una’s weaseling on the subject from anybody else, so why wouldn’t I call her on it?

I know that Sherlockians like to pretend that Holmes was a real character and that Doyle was merely Watson’s “literary agent.” This is great fun in its place. However, if one of them were to look you in the eye and insist after the meeting that Holmes was real and that you were an idiot for saying otherwise, you’d have to restrain yourself from punching that smirking face in.

The behavior here is not about sharing a joke. It’s about telling us that we’re idiots.

Hey, Una, Dex. You’re acting like jerks. Isn’t a warning due at a minimum? How about a full banning?

[silenus]

@Exapno Mapcase

Isn’t a warning due at a minimum? How about a full banning?

Because of your long, semi-meritorius service to the Dope, I’d recommend that they just warn you.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@Chronos

Pseudonym, certainly. But I’ve seen no evidence whatsoever that it’s a collectively-used pseudonym, and in my time as a member of the SDSAB, I would have been in a position to know. Cecil (whoever that may be) does, at time, ask for help from us, but whenever he does so, he acknowledges us (individually or collectively) in the column. In fact, there was one occasion (which, amusingly, is the first Google hit for “turtle butts”) where almost all of the body of the article was written by a staff member (Colibri, in this case), but Cecil (who wrote the framing text) made no effort to hide this fact. If the “Cecil Adams” pseudonym were indeed used collectively by the staff (or by some “inner circle” of the staff), why wouldn’t they have just run Colibri’s response entirely under the Adams by-line?

Furthermore, if the “Cecil” columns really were written by staff members, why maintain the distinction between Cecil’s columns and the Staff Reports? Surely, it’d be easier to just call them all “Cecil’s columns”.

I’m in no position to touch the question of who Cecil is, but I can confidently state that he’s just one person.

Hmmmm. OK, I guess I’ll accept that, but again…why does anyone really care? The anonynimity of all of us here as well as the “true identity” of Mr Cecil Adams is kind of an accepted reality, isn’t it?
Kind of par for the course?

[Princhester]

@Exapno Mapcase

However, if one of them were to look you in the eye and insist after the meeting that Holmes was real and that you were an idiot for saying otherwise, you’d have to restrain yourself from punching that smirking face in.

’
What would your opinion be of some guy who, when he goes to Holmes’ fans’ meetings, likes to confront them insistently with the question of whether Holmes is real, knowing that Holmes’ reality is an in-joke that these fans don’t like to spoil?

[Gadarene]

What would your opinion be of some guy who, when he goes to Holmes’ fans’ meetings, likes to confront them insistently with the question of whether Holmes is real, knowing that Holmes’ reality is an in-joke that these fans don’t like to spoil?

Dex’s post in this thread doesn’t seem like a winking in-joke.

[Peter_Morris]

“Do you remember writing in your diary,” Dexter said, “that it did not matter whether I was a friend or an enemy, since I was at least a person who understood you and could be talked to? You were right, I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind except that you happen to be insane. Before we bring the thread to an end, you can ask me a few questions, if you choose.”

“Any questions I like?”

“Anything.” He saw that Winston Smith’s eyes were upon the dial.

“Does Cecil Adams exist?”

“Of course he exists. The Straight Dope exists. Cecil Adams is the embodiment of the Straight Dope.”

“Does he exist in the same way as I exist?”

“It is of no importance. He exists.”

“Will Cecil Adams ever die?”

“Of course not. How could he die? Next question.”

“What is the origin of ‘the whole nine yards?’”

“That, Winston, you will never know. If we choose to give you free membership for life, and if you live to be ninety years old, still you will never learn the answer to that question. As long as you live it will be an unsolved riddle in your mind.” Winston lay silent. His breast rose and fell a little faster. He still had not asked the question that had come into his mind the first. He had got to ask it, and yet it was as though is tongue would not utter it. There was trace of amusement in O’Brien’s face. Even his spectacles seemed to wear an ironical gleam. He knows, thought Winston suddenly, he knows what I am going to ask! At the thought the words burst out of him:

“Has mankind ever visited the deepest part of the ocean?”

Dexter raised a finger to the man in the white coat. Evidently the thread was at an end. A needle jerked into Winston’s arm. He sank almost instantly into deep sleep.

[DSYoungEsq]

@Chronos

I’m in no position to touch the question of who Cecil is, but I can confidently state that he’s just one person.

This statement is manifestly contradictory.

If you can “confidently” state that he is just one person, you can only do so upon personal knowledge that there is, indeed, one person who writes the columns. If you know that to be the case personally, then either you know the person yourself, and know what exactly goes into the production of the column (in which case it is highly unlikely that you do not know who this person really is), or you are the person who writes the columns (in which case you definitely know who the person really is).

Or, your “confidence” level is quite low.

[jayjay]

I can’t believe anyone actually cares that much about this question that they’d get angry about the whole “Cecil as a real person” in-joke. Anyone who’s been here longer than a month knows the truth. No one who actually goes with the joke expects anyone to actually believe it, so it’s not an insult to anyone’s intelligence. It’s an in-joke. It’s something that’s used to answer newbies, like asking for a left-handed smoke shifter or dehydrated water pills. What is there to get upset about? Geez…

[Gadarene]

Reread Dex’s post in this thread, jayjay. It wasn’t directed at any newbies.

[jayjay]

@Gadarene

Reread Dex’s post in this thread, jayjay. It wasn’t directed at any newbies.

Okay. Who cares? I don’t get the outrage or the anger. Who freakin’ cares? So some of the mods/admins come in to try to maintain the myth (and I read it as being directed at the OP, scrambledeggs, rather than Exapno, regardless of whose post it actually followed). Who CARES?

Jeebus…

[Colibri]

@Chronos

Pseudonym, certainly. But I’ve seen no evidence whatsoever that it’s a collectively-used pseudonym, and in my time as a member of the SDSAB, I would have been in a position to know. Cecil (whoever that may be) does, at time, ask for help from us, but whenever he does so, he acknowledges us (individually or collectively) in the column. In fact, there was one occasion (which, amusingly, is the first Google hit for “turtle butts”) where almost all of the body of the article was written by a staff member (Colibri, in this case), but Cecil (who wrote the framing text) made no effort to hide this fact. If the “Cecil Adams” pseudonym were indeed used collectively by the staff (or by some “inner circle” of the staff), why wouldn’t they have just run Colibri’s response entirely under the Adams by-line?

Furthermore, if the “Cecil” columns really were written by staff members, why maintain the distinction between Cecil’s columns and the Staff Reports? Surely, it’d be easier to just call them all “Cecil’s columns”.

Exactly. I’ve been quoted at some length in several other columns too. Cecil has never used any significant information from me without clear attribution. (He stole a joke from me once, but that’s par for the course). I certainly wouldn’t have bothered writing some of my more substantial Staff Reports as such if I had the option of publishing them as Cecil’s own columns (not to mention getting paid by the Reader for them. ;))

To the best of my knowledge, based on seven years now as SDSAB (and seeing Staff Reports in progress), no other Staff member has contributed substantial information to a Cecil column without it being acknowledged as such. As far as I can tell, SDSAB do not ghost-write any Cecil’s columns.

This said, I’ve never met in person Cecil, Ed, Dex, or any other current member of the SDSAB. I have no personal knowledge that any of them exist in any form other than as they present themselves here or in the columns and books.

[Revenant_Threshold]

@jayjay

I can’t believe anyone actually cares that much about this question that they’d get angry about the whole “Cecil as a real person” in-joke. Anyone who’s been here longer than a month knows the truth. No one who actually goes with the joke expects anyone to actually believe it, so it’s not an insult to anyone’s intelligence. It’s an in-joke. It’s something that’s used to answer newbies, like asking for a left-handed smoke shifter or dehydrated water pills. What is there to get upset about? Geez…

I don’t get the anger either, but I don’t know the truth either. Other than “Cecil is a not their real name”. For it to be an in-joke, the in-group would tend to have to know the reality of the situation, and I for one don’t. I’m not angry, but I certainly wouldn’t mind knowing.

[Gadarene]

shrug I’m not the one perpetuating ignorance on a website dedicated to fighting it.

[Colibri]

@Exapno Mapcase

Hey, Una, Dex. You’re acting like jerks. Isn’t a warning due at a minimum? How about a full banning?

[Moderating]

Now this is getting out of line. Calling other posters jerks in GQ is not allowable. Advocating they be banned in GQ is junior moderating. If you want to call out Una, Dex, or anyone else about their responses in this thread, take it to the Pit. Unless you tone down your language here, you’re the one who will receive a warning.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

[Exapno_Mapcase]

@jayjay

Who CARES?

I care. I don’t care that you don’t care. You’re not the one being personally insulted. I am. I wrote a post - in GQ, yet - giving the best exact information I have to an OP.

My reward was being told I was wrong, by people who know the right answer but who refuse to provide any evidence that my answer was wrong.

Either I was right or I was wrong. If I was wrong I’ve offered to publicly apologize. So if I’m right I also expect public acknowledgment. Not from any random passer-by, but from the people who know the right answer.

As I said before, I get the game. I’ve been a Sherlockian for 40 years. As I also said, there is a right time and place for the game and a wrong time and place for the game. This is the wrong time and place.

Say it. Here, in public. Then everybody can go back to playing the game.

[Gadarene]

Exceptionally well said.

[Una_Persson]

@Exapno Mapcase

I wouldn’t accept Una’s weaseling on the subject from anybody else, so why wouldn’t I call her on it?

…

Hey, Una, Dex. You’re acting like jerks. Isn’t a warning due at a minimum? How about a full banning?

How very unfortunate.

[Measure_for_Measure]

@Chronos

I’m in no position to touch the question of who Cecil is, but I can confidently state that he’s just one person.

…at least at any given time. The introduction to the first Straight Dope book lists 3 sequential editors, as has been stated in this thread.

I’ve always contended that Cecil isn’t an individual per se, more like a force of nature.

[jayjay]

@Exapno Mapcase

I care. I don’t care that you don’t care. You’re not the one being personally insulted. I am. I wrote a post - in GQ, yet - giving the best exact information I have to an OP.

It’s no skin off my nose is you want to commit suicide-by-mod over such a pointless and frankly, petty, subject.

[Princhester]

@Gadarene

Dex’s post in this thread doesn’t seem like a winking in-joke.

Well, there’s your problem.

I emphasise “your”.

@Exapno Mapcase

Either I was right or I was wrong. If I was wrong I’ve offered to publicly apologize. So if I’m right I also expect public acknowledgment. Not from any random passer-by, but from the people who know the right answer.

Where were you told you were wrong? Precisely? I’m not getting it. I can see some posts that are capable of implying you were wrong but are equally capable of being read as a joke, and/or as walking some fine definitional lines, but I can’t see that anyone is saying flat out that you are wrong.

As I said before, I get the game. I’ve been a Sherlockian for 40 years. As I also said, there is a right time and place for the game and a wrong time and place for the game. This is the wrong time and place.

What???

Look at your hypothetical above. You said this:

@Exapno

However, if one of them were to look you in the eye and insist **after the meeting ** that Holmes was real and that you were an idiot for saying otherwise, you’d have to restrain yourself from punching that smirking face in.

My emphasis. You carefully constructed a hypothetical in which an assertion is made after the meeting. Because you know that this sort of assertion is not out of place at all, in the meeting.

Exapno, this is the meeting. This is Cecil Adams Headquarters. The heart of CA fandom. There is no place on the planet that is more the right time and place for the game. And you sound distinctly humourless by insisting otherwise.

Sure, you may say that in GQ we should uphold some sort of gold standard in which even the board’s own sacred cows are not sacred. Well, tough luck. I don’t think that it is any sort of real evidence of slipping standards to have one tiny area of knowledge in which we play a game and don’t play straight.

Finally, the whole “insulting our intelligence” thing makes no sense. On the contrary, the Cecil game assumes we have the intelligence to work out what’s going on, despite the “nudge nudge” misinformation we are given. Spelling it out would insult our intelligence.