# Why does Christianity not play much of a role in the Middle East **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466 "2012-11-19T01:54:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/21 "2012-11-19T05:12:32Z")
And yes, I realize that I misspoke when I typed that Jews and Muslims were going at it forever. I meant that the region had been tumultuous forever, the Jews and Muslims just being the latest in a long line of people fighting down there. That doesn’t really change my point: The birthplace of Christianity - the birthplace of Christ Himself - is barely at all Christian. That seems interesting to me especially with the prevalence of Christianity in many, many other places quite far from where Jesus walked the earth. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/22 "2012-11-19T05:14:38Z")
The Middle East is Asia. Christianity is a minority religion in Asia. Like I said, it may have started in the Middle East, but it grew in Europe, mainly due to it being adopted as the state religion by the Roman Empire. And where it was started was much closer to the center of Islam than to the center of Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/23 "2012-11-19T05:21:53Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The Middle East is Asia. Christianity is a minority religion in Asia. > > Like I said, it may have started in the Middle East, but it grew in Europe, mainly due to it being adopted as the state religion by the Roman Empire. > > And where it was started was much closer to the center of Islam than to the center of Christianity. Missed the edit window. It’s really the Center of Gravity that matters. Palestine has always been well within the center of gravity of Islam (one Islam came into being), but it was never within the center of gravity of Christianity (except maybe in the 1st or 2nd century C.E. when Christians weren’t much of a force in anything). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/24 "2012-11-19T05:43:56Z")
Buddha was Indian. And yet only about 5% of Indians are Buddhist, while large majorities of many countries east of India are Buddhists. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/25 "2012-11-19T05:51:09Z")
…and Jesus was a Jew. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/26 "2012-11-19T06:26:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Buddha was Indian. And yet only about 5% of Indians are Buddhist, while large majorities of many countries east of India are Buddhists. Nepalese actually and as stated, you have the Sassanids to thank for that. ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/27 "2012-11-19T08:27:07Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Christianity came into existence in the Middle East in the 1st century AD. However, while the Jews and Muslims have been fighting in the region since time eternal and continue to do so, Christians seem to have no role outside of the occasional story about how they face persecution from one of the two predominant religions in the area - quite the opposite for a religion that thrives throughout the rest of the world as the predominant religion and one whose history is known for coming into areas and taking them over. [The Lost History of Christianity](http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/episodes/may-1-2009/christianitys-lost-history/2834/), which I read recently, makes the case that the centre of gravity of Christianity was in the Middle East for the first 1000 years of Christianity. In 600AD, there more christians in Tehran than in Paris or London and Baghdad was as much a centre of christianity as Rome or Constantinople. Christianity thrived as a major religion in the east long after the arab and muslim conquests and did not begin to wane until the Mongol invasions of 1300AD and even then, Christianity was tolerated in much of the muslim world until the start of the 20th century. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/28 "2012-11-19T08:53:16Z")
> [@kevlaw](#): > > [The Lost History of Christianity](http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/episodes/may-1-2009/christianitys-lost-history/2834/), which I read recently, makes the case that the centre of gravity of Christianity was in the Middle East for the first 1000 years of Christianity. In 600AD, there more christians in Tehran than in Paris or London and Baghdad was as much a centre of christianity as Rome or Constantinople. > > . Tehran in 600 AD did not exist and neither did Baghdad. London was an abandoned Roman ruin and Paris a former Legion garrison. The Romans the worlds premier Christian power would soon be going to war against the Persians and soon Egypt and the Levant would soon be occupied by them and the Persians would lay seige to Constaninople. Not exactly the finest hour of Christianity in the ME. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/29 "2012-11-19T09:24:12Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Tehran in 600 AD did not exist and neither did Baghdad. London was an abandoned Roman ruin and Paris a former Legion garrison. The Romans the worlds premier Christian power would soon be going to war against the Persians and soon Egypt and the Levant would soon be occupied by them and the Persians would lay seige to Constaninople. Not exactly the finest hour of Christianity in the ME. I don’t think the Persians are who you think they are. You’ve made some mistakes there. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/30 "2012-11-19T09:59:41Z")
Christian nations stopped being propelled by the interest of Christianity a long time ago. In the 19th century Britain fought hard to keep Russia from conquering too much of Ottoman land, without which they’d probably have taken even Constantinople. But individual Christians and Christian NGOs are not content to let things be in the Middle East. Various Christian proselyting organisations have been working in the region for many years, but it’s hard because they face harsh repression. According to Philip Jenkins many Chinese Christians see it as their special mission to convert the Middle East. > [@blindboyard](#): > > I don’t think the Persians are who you think they are. You’ve made some mistakes there. No mistake. The Romans were engaged in a particular violent round of their millennia long war with various Persian empires. At one time the Persians had invaded the Roman province of Palestine and were at the gates of Constantinople. The Romans won in the end but it didn’t make much difference because the Arabs used the fatigue of both parts to conquer both the Persian Empire and most of the Roman. They were a lot more vicious towards Persian Zoroastrianism than towards Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/31 "2012-11-19T10:09:59Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Christianity is the majority in the following nations: > > […] > > So no, Christianity isn’t everywhere… But it’s in a shitload of places. Yet not the place where the religion first started! I find this interesting. Don’t you? As already stated by previus posters, that would be because Christianity despite being born in the middle east (and even that is in fact debatable. Jesus was born in Palestine, but Christianity as we know it originated in the Roman Empire), Christianity is essentially a Roman, and then European religion, not a middle Eastern one. It spreads in other places Africa, Americas, etc… only due to the dominance of Europe. It survived and grown for a while in the Near East again only due to the Roman domination there. Had Persians ruled the area intead of the Romans, it would probably have completely or almost completely dissapeared there. By the way, there’s a similar situation with Buddhism. The religion appeared in India, but flourished in other parts of Asia, while becoming very minor in the area where it originated. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/32 "2012-11-19T10:17:36Z")
On review, everything I just wrote had already been posted and was redudndant. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/33 "2012-11-19T11:29:56Z")
Has nobody heard of Lebanon? [This happened for 15.5 years](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War). Sure, much of it was “religious” in the sense that the Troubles were (different religions fighting, but it’s more socially/politically motivated than specifically sectarian). It ended not too well for Christians, but they certainly were involved in a lot. Now they are somewhat divided into two camps, each dominated by Sunnis or Shiites. Part of it was a large diaspora of mainly Christians. They used to be 84% in 1926, now probably in the 30-40% range (census doesn’t ask religion questions). And as mentioned, Christian persecutions in Egypt recently, Iraq a few years ago, and some issues in Syria. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/34 "2012-11-19T13:27:47Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Has nobody heard of Lebanon? [This happened for 15.5 years](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War). Sure, much of it was “religious” in the sense that the Troubles were (different religions fighting, but it’s more socially/politically motivated than specifically sectarian). It ended not too well for Christians, but they certainly were involved in a lot. Now they are somewhat divided into two camps, each dominated by Sunnis or Shiites. Part of it was a large diaspora of mainly Christians. They used to be 84% in 1926, now probably in the 30-40% range (census doesn’t ask religion questions). > > And as mentioned, Christian persecutions in Egypt recently, Iraq a few years ago, and some issues in Syria. See post #3 in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/35 "2012-11-19T14:03:41Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > The Romans completely evicted the Jews from Palestine by about 160AD. > > From then until the 20th contury the Jews nowhere lived in concentrations > large enough in the Middle East to contest sovereignty with either Christians, > or with Muslims who almost completely replaced the Christians ca.650AD &ff. > Therefore it is incorrect to say Jews and Muslims have been fighting there > “since time eternal”. They have only been fighting there since the Jews began > returning to Palestine ca. 1920 &ff. This isn’t _entirely_ true. In point of fact, the early Muslims _did_ contend with Jewish Arab tribes for the mastery in the Arabian penninsula and there were previously Jewish kingdoms there (the Muslims won) - this had the unfortunate result of leaving several unpleasant sections in the Koran dealing with Muslim hostility vs. Jews. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/36 "2012-11-19T14:24:52Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > This isn’t _entirely_ true. In point of fact, the early Muslims _did_ contend with Jewish Arab tribes for the mastery in the Arabian penninsula and there were previously Jewish kingdoms there (the Muslims won) - this had the unfortunate result of leaving several unpleasant sections in the Koran dealing with Muslim hostility vs. Jews. Inaccurate. There were no Jewish “Kingdoms”. There were Jewish tribes living in the region. Many of them supported the pagan Meccans;a poor choice as it turned out. Some did in fact support the muslims. The area was in theory supposed to be under the overlordship of Rome, but by this time that was a mostly theoretical concept. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/37 "2012-11-19T14:28:37Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > I don’t think the Persians are who you think they are. You’ve made some mistakes there. No [not really](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine%E2%80%93Sassanid_War_of_602%E2%80%93628). ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/38 "2012-11-19T14:47:15Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Inaccurate. There were no Jewish “Kingdoms”. There were Jewish tribes living in the region. Many of them supported the pagan Meccans;a poor choice as it turned out. Some did in fact support the muslims. The area was in theory supposed to be under the overlordship of Rome, but by this time that was a mostly theoretical concept. Huh? Sure there were Jewish kingdoms in Arabia, pre-Islam and post-diaspora. For example, the Himyarite Kingdom of Yemen - ended by the (Christian) Negus of Ethiopia. This event was pivotal to the history of Islam, as the Ethiopians then went on to threaten Mecca (the “Battle of the Elephant” - the year of Mohammed’s birth). > **[Himyar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himyarite_Kingdom)** > > Zurayids (266–316) > Hamdanids (304–439) > Mahdids (304–439) > Tahirid state (266–316) > [@](#): > > **The Jewish monarchy in Ḥimyar continued for another century** , with one interruption. It finally ended with the reign of Yṳsuf,known as Dhū Nuwās who in 523 initiated a pogrom against the Christian population of Najrān. [7] (These events, long attested to by Syriac, Greek, and Arabic sources, had until recently been largely dismissed by Western scholars as implausible, but recent discoveries of period inscriptions seem to leave little doubt regarding the historicity of the pogrom in question.) Word of the slaughter eventually reached the negus of Axum, who invaded Ḥimyar in 525, conquering it and deposing Yūsuf. [Emphasis added] ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/39 "2012-11-19T14:53:13Z")
Here’s another source on this ancient Jewish Arabian kingdom: > **[The Rise and Fall of a Jewish Kingdom in Arabia](https://www.ias.edu/ideas/2011/bowersock-jewish-arabia)** > > In these turbulent times in the Middle East, I have found myself working on the rise and fall of a late antique Jewish kingdom along the Red Sea in the Arabian peninsula. Friends and colleagues alike have reacted with amazement and disbelief when I... ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466/40 "2012-11-19T15:31:56Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Huh? Sure there were Jewish kingdoms in Arabia, pre-Islam and post-diaspora. For example, the Himyarite Kingdom of Yemen - ended by the (Christian) Negus of Ethiopia. > > This event was pivotal to the history of Islam, as the Ethiopians then went on to threaten Mecca (the “Battle of the Elephant” - the year of Mohammed’s birth). > > [Himyar - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himyarite_Kingdom) > > [Emphasis added] Note that this was i) In Yemen not Hejaz which is where Islam came into being and ii) Was nearly a century before Muhammads time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-christianity-not-play-much-of-a-role-in-the-middle-east/641466.md?page=3)