# Why does Cuba forbid emigration? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 21, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237 "2015-04-21T23:57:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/21 "2015-04-22T15:15:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What **Haberdash** says - it sounds a little funny to say “they lifted the ban two years ago, but not as many Cubans have left as Jamaicans who were free to leave for a hundred years”. > > As to the OP, the ban on emigration was imposed in 1961 because The official line of the government is that things are better under socialism. Allowing people to leave can’t be allowed because it shows that people don’t believe that things are better. And especially travel can’t be allowed because people might travel somewhere other than Cuba, and come back and tell everyone how shabby and repressive things are in Cuba as compared to everywhere else. > > And things are deteriorating in Cuba - > Doctors make the equivalent of $23 a month, while Castro is a billionaire. > > Regards, > Shodan Any evidence that Castro is a billionaire? Unlike with other quasicommunist or former communist countries, I haven’t been able to find any reliable sources for Cuba’s inequality nowadays. Most published tables don’t include it- their Gini coefficient was 22 in the 1980s (one of the lowest in the world), and it’s probably much higher nowadays, but I doubt it’s 55. Again, though, I have no clue what it is. Cuba’s economy has been growing for most of the last decade though, and they have the second highest human development index in Latin America after Chile. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/22 "2015-04-22T15:21:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > … > As to the OP, the ban on emigration was imposed in 1961 because The official line of the government is that things are better under socialism. Allowing people to leave can’t be allowed because it shows that people don’t believe that things are better. And especially travel can’t be allowed because people might travel somewhere other than Cuba, and come back and tell everyone how shabby and repressive things are in Cuba as compared to everywhere else… Right. As a comparison, countries like the US and Canada don’t care if you leave. Obama isn’t shaking in his boots that I might actually find out that things are better in Canada. I’ve been there. It’s nice. It has good things. It has things that are not so good. It’s a free country. But it isn’t a paradise of golden streets and money growing on trees. Since we have free media here, people are able to find out what others have _really_ said about other countries, and we can go and check those countries out. Most of us do come back. But the fact that were are allowed to leave at will and come back whenever we want indicates that the US has a mature and honest attitude about the entire thing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/23 "2015-04-22T15:26:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > A Cuban is regarded by the regime as the property of the state. Since this is General Questions, I’d like to see a cite for that one. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/24 "2015-04-22T16:45:16Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Any evidence that Castro is a billionaire? [It was $900 million back in 2006](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/2006-05-04-castro_x.htm). Maybe he has made up the difference with some more [drug sm](http://www.nytimes.com/1989/06/24/world/cuba-discloses-a-drug-network-of-top-officials.html)uggling. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/25 "2015-04-22T17:07:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Since this is General Questions, I’d like to see a cite for that one. > **[Cuba | Country Page | World | Human Rights Watch](https://www.hrw.org/americas/cuba)** > > The Cuban government continues to repress dissent and deter public criticism. It routinely relies on long and short-term arbitrary detention to harass and intimidate critics, independent activists, artists, protesters, and others. Hundreds of... ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/26 "2015-04-22T17:13:58Z")
It’s interesting to note that, in the case of East Germany, you were free to leave the country once you were retired: Retired → not a productive member of society any more → free to go → let the capitalists pay the pension and the medicals bills. It was all about the brain drain. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/27 "2015-04-22T17:26:30Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > [Cuba | Country Page | World | Human Rights Watch](https://www.hrw.org/americas/cuba) Could you be a little more specific as to what part of that website backs up the claim that > [@](#): > > A Cuban is regarded by the regime as the property of the state. ? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/28 "2015-04-22T17:46:46Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Any evidence that Castro is a billionaire? > > U [http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/2006-05-04-castro\_x.htm](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/2006-05-04-castro_x.htm) > **[Castro the commie hypocrite who lives like a billionaire](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2637927/Castro-commie-hypocrite-lives-like-billionaire-Hes-posed-man-people-But-new-book-reveals-Cubas-leader-led-life-pampered-hedonism-fortune-big-Queens.html)** > > The Communist Party styles Senor Castro as devoted to advancing the public good in a country where the majority of the 11 million residents live in abject poverty. > **[Fortunes Of Kings, Queens And Dictators](https://www.forbes.com/2006/05/04/rich-kings-dictators_cz_lk_0504royals.html)** > > Ten of the world's wealthy rulers. > **[CUBA: The Disaster of Castro's Revolution](https://books.google.com/books?id=TQ6MAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT48&lpg=PT48&dq=Castro%2Bis%2Ba%2Bbillionaire&source=bl&ots=FeDRCV9gHG&sig=-xpuBdQ8b0omGa06c4fGuq30UHI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=s903Vc-OB9bhoAT97oGYCQ&ved=0CEsQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Castro%20is%20a%20billionaire&f=false)** > > This book analyzes the current situation existing in Cuba and describes in detail the real disaster caused in every aspect of Cuban life by the so-called revolution of Fidel Castro, including how it has affected the different components of Cuban... ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/29 "2015-04-22T17:51:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Could you be a little more specific as to what part of that website backs up the claim that ? No, I think any effort explaining to you what communism is would be wasted. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/30 "2015-04-22T17:52:53Z")
wiki "Previously, the Cuban government forbid its citizens from leaving or returning to Cuba without first obtaining permission from the government. In a translation by Human Rights Watch, under Cuba’s criminal code, individuals who, “without completing legal formalities, leave or take actions in preparation for leaving the national territory” faced prison sentences of one to three years in prison.[23] From 1985 to 1994 the number of illegal emigrants is estimated to 82,500, with an additional 7,500 up to the mid-2000.[24] Even discussing illegal emigration carried a six-month prison sentence.[25] However, Law-Decree 302, published in the Official Gazette of the Republic of Cuba on October 16, 2012, went into effect on January 14, 2013. This immigration law eliminates the need for an exit permit but increases passport costs to 100 CUC, the equivalent of 5 months of average salary." ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/31 "2015-04-22T18:46:44Z")
Since the answer to this is basically political, let’s move this over to Great Debates. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/32 "2015-04-22T20:20:46Z")
- > [@Shodan](#): > > [It was $900 million back in 2006](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/2006-05-04-castro_x.htm). Maybe he has made up the difference with some more [drug sm](http://www.nytimes.com/1989/06/24/world/cuba-discloses-a-drug-network-of-top-officials.html)uggling. > > Regards, > Shodan _Forbes_ magazine clearly has some difficulty distinguishing between “personal wealth” and “state property, administered by the Cuban Government”. This is not really surprising to me- I’m sure that if the editorial staff of Forbes ran a country, they would use its national wealth to aggrandize themselves. The Cuban government takes a very different view, though. The results are evident in the fact that they have the second highest HDI in Latin America. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/33 "2015-04-22T20:36:21Z")
Oh, so you _are_ apologizing for communism. Congratulations on being the moral equivalent of a Nazi. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/34 "2015-04-22T20:41:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > [USATODAY.com - Fidel Castro net worth rises, according to 'Forbes'](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/2006-05-04-castro_x.htm) > > [Fidel Castro, the commie hypocrite who lives like a billionaire | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2637927/Castro-commie-hypocrite-lives-like-billionaire-Hes-posed-man-people-But-new-book-reveals-Cubas-leader-led-life-pampered-hedonism-fortune-big-Queens.html) > > [Fortunes Of Kings, Queens And Dictators](http://www.forbes.com/2006/05/04/rich-kings-dictators_cz_lk_0504royals.html) > > [CUBA: The Disaster of Castro's Revolution - Andres J. Solares - Google Books](https://books.google.com/books?id=TQ6MAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT48&lpg=PT48&dq=Castro+is+a+billionaire&source=bl&ots=FeDRCV9gHG&sig=-xpuBdQ8b0omGa06c4fGuq30UHI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=s903Vc-OB9bhoAT97oGYCQ&ved=0CEsQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Castro%20is%20a%20billionaire&f=false) That Daily Mail one is a hilariously unapologetic smear job. Lol. Not defending Castro but when a news article is titled “Commie hypocrite lives like a billionaire!” and quotes unnamed underage sex partners, kind of hard to take it seriously. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/35 "2015-04-22T21:04:31Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Oh, so you _are_ apologizing for communism. Congratulations on being the moral equivalent of a Nazi. Who in this thread has apologized for communism? I don’t see anyone apologizing for communism. The closest thing is a criticism of a poorly reasoned Forbes article. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/36 "2015-04-22T22:26:55Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > Who in this thread has apologized for communism? I don’t see anyone apologizing for communism. The closest thing is a criticism of a poorly reasoned Forbes article. I’ll happily self-identify as a _qualified_ supporter of the Cuban regime, though I don’t see it as anything bad which particularly needs to be ‘apologised’ for. The Cuban revolution made a lot of mistakes, and was wrong about some things, but on balance I think they were better than their enemies, then and now, and have much more good than bad to their credit. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/37 "2015-04-22T22:39:32Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I’ll happily self-identify as a _qualified_ supporter of the Cuban regime, though I don’t see it as anything bad which particularly needs to be ‘apologised’ for. Well, yes, as far as \*Communist Dictatorships \*go, they aren’t so bad.:rolleyes: But little things like Human rights, they seem to be what people want. They also dont have food, shelter, and other things most people seem to want. [http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2014/country-chapters/cuba](http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2014/country-chapters/cuba) [http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/countries/americas/cuba](http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/countries/americas/cuba) > **[Cuban Dissidents Face Beatings, Arbitrary Arrests](https://www.ibtimes.com/cuba-human-rights-violations-persist-political-dissidents-face-beatings-arbitrary-1792700)** > > All media outlets in Cuba are tightly controlled by the government, which inhibits access to outside information. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/38 "2015-04-22T23:06:44Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > If emigration from Cuba reflects how terrible Cuban communism is, then the fact that 45% of Jamaicans have left should indicate that capitalist democracy is even worse. Or, that the transportation from Jamaica…exists. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/39 "2015-04-22T23:13:21Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I’ll happily self-identify as a _qualified_ supporter of the Cuban regime, though I don’t see it as anything bad which particularly needs to be ‘apologised’ for. The Cuban revolution made a lot of mistakes, and was wrong about some things, but on balance I think they were better than their enemies, then and now, and have much more good than bad to their credit. It is solely a reflection of your parents and your schooling that you turned out to be such a moral failure. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/40 "2015-04-22T23:24:01Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > It’s interesting to note that, in the case of East Germany, you were free to leave the country once you were retired: Retired → not a productive member of society any more → free to go → let the capitalists pay the pension and the medicals bills. It was all about the brain drain. Same deal if you were disabled and couldn’t work; you’d be allowed to “go live with relatives” in West Germany. And on rare occasions troublesome, but prominent dissidents (such as writers) were allowed to travel abroad (ie outside the Eastern Bloc), but then had their citizenship cancelled so they couldn’t return. IIRC Yugoslavia (socialist, but not really part of the Eastern Bloc) abolished it’s emigration restrictions sometime in the 70s, and actively encouraged citizens to work abroad so they could sent remittances home. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237.md?page=3)