# Why does Cuba forbid emigration? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 21, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237 "2015-04-21T23:57:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/61 "2015-04-23T16:28:11Z")
That’s exactly what a secret Castro agent would say! ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/62 "2015-04-23T16:32:15Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I stated a pretty obvious point. You realize I am a different poster than the person you called a defender before, right? You’re the person who is “not defending Castro” by claiming that his personal wealth doesn’t count if the wrong newspaper reports on it and cheerfully explaining that he just made the tough choice to enslave his country’s population. > [@CarnalK](#): > > That Daily Mail one is a hilariously unapologetic smear job. Lol. Not defending Castro but when a news article is titled “Commie hypocrite lives like a billionaire!” and quotes unnamed underage sex partners, kind of hard to take it seriously. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/63 "2015-04-23T16:38:54Z")
I didn’t say it was in the wrong newspaper. I said the article was…wait a sec. You just quoted it so you know what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/64 "2015-04-23T17:24:45Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It’s not the emigration rate that is a reflection on Cuban communism; it’s the restrictions on emigration that the Cuban government put on their citizens that is terrible. It was contrary to international law (the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights), and clearly indicated that the state was more important than the citizens. > > So what? Free individuals get to decide for themselves where they want to live. Uh, no. The ‘citizens’ benefited by having all those skilled personnel around (mostly trained at public expense). Developing countries which allow free migration end up losing a lot of their most educated and technically skilled people, which holds back development. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/65 "2015-04-23T17:25:49Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well I guess Castro wanted doctors more than he wanted a free country. The result is in the Cuban health statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/66 "2015-04-23T17:27:58Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I spot a few tax havens in that list (e.g. Caymans, Luxembourg, Isle of Man), so money is still a factor. > > “Spain” is probably just all the British retirees moving to where it’s warm and sunny - it’s basically the UK version of Florida. Lebanon has net immigration ??! Spain has been trying to attract young professionals from Latin American countries for awhile now, I don’t know with how much success. Qatar and the UAE are of course major immigration destinations because oil. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/67 "2015-04-23T17:29:25Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > The result is in the Cuban health statistics. Look at how big the cotton crop is! ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/68 "2015-04-23T17:36:30Z")
You’re comparing cotton crops to health care? Anyway, you are a little off base. Not being allowed to leave the country is not the "exact same " as slavery. It just isn’t. Doctors can drive cabs if they want, they just can’t move to Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/69 "2015-04-23T17:38:17Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > The result is in the Cuban health statistics. …and in the prisons and psychiatric hospitals full of political prisoners and dissidents. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/70 "2015-04-23T17:41:05Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > IFree individuals get to decide for themselves where they want to live. > [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Uh, no. The ‘citizens’ benefited by having all those skilled personnel around (mostly trained at public expense). Developing countries which allow free migration end up losing a lot of their most educated and technically skilled people, which holds back development. Uh, no… what? “Free individuals” don’t get to decide for themselves where they want to live? Remember, we are talking about “free individuals”. How are you defining “free”? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/71 "2015-04-23T17:42:29Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Lebanon has net immigration ??! [Thanks to Syria’s world-high net outflow, they do:](http://www.migrationpolicycentre.eu/docs/migration_profiles/Lebanon.pdf) > [@](#): > > Lebanon has also a long history of immigration and is currently a destination for temporary workers coming mainly from Syria and Asia. Meanwhile, it hosts large numbers of refugees and asylum seekers, especially Palestinians and Iraqis, who today go to make up important parts of the population residing in Lebanon. In addition, Lebanon has been the most affected country (together with Jordan) in terms of the arrival of forced migrants fleeing Syria: for Lebanon their number stood at 450,639 Syrians as of 29 April 2013. 450,000 refugees entering a nation of 4.4 million skews the numbers quite a bit. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/72 "2015-04-23T17:45:14Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > …and in the prisons and psychiatric hospitals full of political prisoners and dissidents. Well how does it compare to (free and/or capitalist) countries in the region wrt political prisoners? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/73 "2015-04-23T17:48:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Uh, no… what? “Free individuals” don’t get to decide for themselves where they want to live? Remember, we are talking about “free individuals”. How are you defining “free”? Think he was responding to the “clearly indicated that the state was more important than the citizens.” part. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/74 "2015-04-23T17:52:30Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > The result is in the Cuban health statistics. Lies, damn lies, and statistics. You do know that Cuba provides those numbers to WHO, right? But yeah, Cuba has a lot of Doctors, and _for a third world nation,_ their health care is very good. Thye also have problems too: > **[Healthcare truth and tales](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2012/6/18/the-truths-and-tales-of-cuban-healthcare)** > > The state-run system has been praised, but many specialists now fear they are falling behind international standards. "By the time I moved to Cuba in 1997, there were serious shortages of medicine - from simple aspirin to more badly needed drugs. Ironically, many medicines that cannot be found at a pharmacy are easily bought on the black market. Some doctors, nurses and cleaning staff smuggle the medicine out of the hospitals in a bid to make extra cash. Although medical attention remains free, many patients did and still do bring their doctors food, money or other gifts to get to the front of the queue or to guarantee an appointment for an X-ray, blood test or operation. If you do not have a contact or money to pay under the table, the waiting time for all but emergency procedures can be ridiculously long. Many Cubans complain that top-level government and Communist Party officials have access to VIP health treatment, while ordinary people must queue from dawn for a routine test, with no guarantee that the allotted numbers will not run out before it is their turn…I saw many hospitals where there was often no running water, the toilets did not flush, and the risk of infections - by the hospital’s own admission - was extremely high. " So, yeah- if I needed some simple care for like strep throat or a broken bone, and had some hard cash to get a place first in line and buy the needed drugs Cuban health care is damn good. But they simply dont have the infrastructure for really up to date high tech procedures. Dont get me wrong- _for a third world nation_, Cuba is just about the best in health care. But there are problems and issues, and the truth is not so simple. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/75 "2015-04-23T17:54:29Z")
I don’t know who would consider living an extra 1.5 years in an open-air prison to be so great, anyhow. Keeping people alive under the Castro regime is just torturing them longer. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/76 "2015-04-23T17:57:37Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Think he was responding to the “clearly indicated that the state was more important than the citizens.” part. That wouldn’t make any difference. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/77 "2015-04-23T18:01:47Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well how does it compare to (free and/or capitalist) countries in the region wrt political prisoners? [Let’s take a gander at the rest of the region.](http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2015) Excluding nations with no Human Rights Watch entry, we have: Haiti - no mention of political prisoners. Colombia - no mention of political prisoners. Venezuela - no mention of political prisoners as, though reprisals against those who criticize the government is described. Guatemala - no mention of political prisoners. Honduras - no mention of political prisoners, though political interference with the judiciary is described. Ecuador - no mention of political prisoners as such, though strict laws governing free expression are described, along with political interference with the judiciary. Cuba alone has an HRW entry titled “Political Prisoners”. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/78 "2015-04-23T18:02:57Z")
@John Mace: What you posted did not address state vs citizen. So yeah, it makes a difference. Human Action, I’m a little surprised at zero political prisoners in the entirety of central America and the Caribbean save Cuba But hey, I’m no expert. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/79 "2015-04-23T18:06:05Z")
Does the US really want Cuba to free up its emigration policies? Or would we prefer that we have time to modify _our_ current policies? IIRC, we still have that rule that gives preferential treatment to Cubans fleeing the horror or socialized daiquiris. So, if Cuba said “Sure, get on any boat you want, and go wherever you like!”, is that really a policy we want to encourage? ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/80 "2015-04-23T18:08:20Z")
Maybe we could let all of America’s “progressives” go live in their paradise and welcome anyone who wants to take their place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237.md?page=5)