# Why does Cuba forbid emigration? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 21, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237 "2015-04-21T23:57:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/121 "2015-04-24T00:28:49Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > So that would be a no on the “not defending Castro” thing still being accurate? If you make non-hyperbolic criticisms of Castro I will not defend him. If you want to make foamy mouth screams about the evil slave island that is Cuba, I kind of feel obliged too point out how ridiculous you are being. Make of that what you may. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/122 "2015-04-24T00:37:27Z")
Correction to my post #120: Putin is, of course, no longer a self-described communist. And since I accept self-descriptions, I was wrong to label him as a communist. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/123 "2015-04-24T01:01:28Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > If you make non-hyperbolic criticisms of Castro I will not defend him. If you want to make foamy mouth screams about the evil slave island that is Cuba, I kind of feel obliged too point out how ridiculous you are being. Make of that what you may. That’s a remarkably complete bubble you’ve formed around the fact that Cuba is, in fact, an evil slave island. “I would love to hear your legitimate criticisms of South Carolina in 1845, but if you’re just going to go on and on about this so-called ‘plantation slavery’ thing and how it’s ‘evil’ then I’m going to find someone who knows how to be reasonable.” ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/124 "2015-04-24T01:09:43Z")
Whatever, foamy. You insult hiistorical and present day slaves with your crap but hey at least you stood up against the red menace. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/125 "2015-04-24T01:11:28Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Nothing makes me roll.my eyes harder than when I watch Americans get all fucking worked up about Cuba’s oh so evil dictatorship. Yeah, emigration should be easier. Yeah, political prisoners isn’t cool. But there are a fuck of a lotworse places to live in Central America and the Caribbean. Believe it or not, most humans are worried more about being murdered and/or eating than being able to move to another country. And many of those places that are shittier to live in over the years has been the direct result of American intervention. So despite notnbeing a communist, please forgive me for not taking the pearl clutching too seriously. How many Latin American countries other than Cuba are totalitarian dictatorships? Serious question, not trying to insult you because my understanding is that while many are corrupt I don’t think any others could be called dictatorships. FWIW, I was born in a totalitarian dictatorship and my father grew up in one that went through a “revolution” and there is a really fundamental difference between living in a totalitarian dictatorship and one that’s not. I remember during the 80s many right-wingers looking down their noses at people like me for criticizing South Africa and demanding to know why I didn’t as much time criticizing the other 51 African countries most of which were even more brutal. I thought they were being stupid. Do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/126 "2015-04-24T01:17:52Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Whatever, foamy. You insult hiistorical and present day slaves with your crap but hey at least you stood up against the red menace. I’m not sure what your intent is with calling him ‘foamy’, but I’d bet it’s not a compliment. Knock it off. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/127 "2015-04-24T02:01:24Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > How many Latin American countries other than Cuba are totalitarian dictatorships? > > Serious question, not trying to insult you because my understanding is that while many are corrupt I don’t think any others could be called dictatorships. Ortega is kinda close and so is Venezuela. At least conservapedia considers them so, but of course they are biased. In any case, the ‘elections’ are doubtful, there’s a cult of personality, great power invested in one office and much corruption. [http://www.conservapedia.com/List\_of\_dictators](http://www.conservapedia.com/List_of_dictators) But neither is indisputably so like Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/128 "2015-04-24T02:08:27Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > How many Latin American countries other than Cuba are totalitarian dictatorships? > > Serious question, not trying to insult you because my understanding is that while many are corrupt I don’t think any others could be called dictatorships. “Totalitarian” ain’t the only kind; see Honduras since Zelaya was ousted. It has no one dictator but no one dares say no to the army, and that counts. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/129 "2015-04-24T03:39:29Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > How many Latin American countries other than Cuba are totalitarian dictatorships? > > Serious question, not trying to insult you because my understanding is that while many are corrupt I don’t think any others could be called dictatorships. > > FWIW, I was born in a totalitarian dictatorship and my father grew up in one that went through a “revolution” and there is a really fundamental difference between living in a totalitarian dictatorship and one that’s not. > > I remember during the 80s many right-wingers looking down their noses at people like me for criticizing South Africa and demanding to know why I didn’t as much time criticizing the other 51 African countries most of which were even more brutal. > > I thought they were being stupid. > > Do you disagree? No, I basically agree. As I clearly said, there are valid criticisms to be made about Cuba. Obviously lack of political freedom is one of them. Does that mean I should solemnly nod my head in agreement as somebody calls it a slave state and the worst place ever? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/130 "2015-04-24T03:57:22Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > No, I basically agree. As I clearly said, there are valid criticisms to be made about Cuba. Obviously lack of political freedom is one of them. Does that mean I should solemnly nod my head in agreement as somebody calls it a slave state and the worst place ever? Who here has called Cuba the “worst place ever”? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/131 "2015-04-24T04:16:44Z")
Where did I specify someone here said it, mr debate team? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/132 "2015-04-24T04:35:18Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > No, I basically agree. As I clearly said, there are valid criticisms to be made about Cuba. Obviously lack of political freedom is one of them. Does that mean I should solemnly nod my head in agreement as somebody calls it a slave state and the worst place ever? Fair enough and FWIW Haberdash’s comments were rather ludicrous and frankly insulting to the descendants of slaves. That said, you claimed there were “a fucklot of places worse” than Cuba in Latin America which strikes as a bit hyperbolic. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/133 "2015-04-24T04:44:07Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Fair enough and FWIW Haberdash’s comments were rather ludicrous and frankly insulting to the descendants of slaves. > > That said, you claimed there were “a fucklot of places worse” than Cuba in Latin America which strikes as a bit hyperbolic. No it’s really not hyperbolic. Look at the homicide rates. Look at general health indices. If you don’t care about voting, like 40+% of certain democratic countries, maybe political freedoms don’t sit at the top of your criteria for “worse place to live”. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/134 "2015-04-24T05:03:51Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > No it’s really not hyperbolic. Look at the homicide rates. Look at general health indices. If you don’t care about voting, like 40+% of certain democratic countries, maybe political freedoms don’t sit at the top of your criteria for “worse place to live”. I was born in a totalitarian dictatorship with free healthcare and now live in a democracy without free healthcare and a much higher homicide rate. I could be wrong, and apologize if I am, but suspect you’ve lived your entire life in the latter. No, only people who’ve never lived in totalitarian dictatorships feel that way. There’s a reason some countries if they opened their borders people would flood out while others would flood in. Anyway, since you claim there are lots of countries in Latin America that are clearly far worse than Cuba, please list several of them and the reasons why. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/135 "2015-04-24T05:19:26Z")
Actually, I have no idea how my country’s homicide rate compares to Iran’'s. A shocking hole in my knowledge base. Have to look it up. Then maybe I can get to the other homework you’ve asssigned. Eta: found it! Iran has double the homicide rate of my country! Just sayin ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/136 "2015-04-24T06:45:28Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Where did I specify someone here said it, mr debate team? You brought it up. If no one said it, then it’s not an issue. So… why did you bring it up? If you’d like to retract that post, fine. Retract it. As for “mr debate team”, did you forget which forum you are posting in? If so, it’s right at the top of the page. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/137 "2015-04-24T06:56:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You brought it up. If no one said it, then it’s not an issue. So… why did you bring it up? > > If you’d like to retract that post, fine. Retract it. > > As for “mr debate team”, did you forget which forum you are posting in? If so, it’s right at the top of the page. What’s to retract? And “mr debate team” was merely to point out pedantry which is a fair comment, imho and seemingly still lost on you. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/138 "2015-04-24T10:26:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, we do have **Hector\_St\_Clare** , who is at any rate an apologist. And there’s **Kropotkin** , who appears to be a Marxist (not necessarily the same thing; “Communist” implies “Stalinist” ever since Stalin). Ain’t seen **Olentzero** around for a while. Who was the one who kept going on about how great China was? All I can remember was that the name started with “C”. We do get all types here. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/139 "2015-04-24T13:51:34Z")
I didn’t realize that asking someone backup their assertion that there were “a fucklot” of countries in Latin America “way worse” than Cuba was “assigning homework”. The fact that you’re refusing to answer and being extremely defensive is quite telling. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237/140 "2015-04-24T14:06:55Z")
In case anyone actually does want to see a report on the topic: Cuba is, by a wide margin, the most oppressive country in the Western Hemisphere on any axis. > **[Discarding Democracy: Return to the Iron Fist](https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2015/discarding-democracy-return-iron-fist)** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-cuba-forbid-emigration/718237.md?page=8)