# Why does England compete as a separate entity in the World Cup instead of a UK team? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 12, 2010, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900 "2010-06-12T08:05:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Drew\_Kit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Drew\_Kit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drew_Kit)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/41 "2010-06-13T23:14:40Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Eh? I’ve never heard anyone say that. Where do you stay? I’d rather not say yet, it’s pretty irrelevelant since I know exactly where the phrase comes from. It’s fae Fife. Every part of Scotland has it’s own patois, each town has it’s own vocabulary, and I keep my ear open for it because if it becomes popular it becomes national. In the early 1990’s I knew some bikers from Fife, and certain words meant something to them but not to Scots from other regions. Major examples of Fife patios that is now national patios are: WeeGee, now Oujie, to refer to a Glaswegian ( someone from Glasgow ); English, a strong insult meaning out of control, macho, vindictive; Nectar, meaning extra especially nice. Used in a sentence could be “That weegie can be a bit English but his sister is nectar”, meaning ‘That Glaswegian is a little bit aggressive and untoward but his sister is to die for’. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/42 "2010-06-13T23:35:31Z")
> [@digs](#): > > :eek: > > Israelis inviting Palestinians to join together for the World Cup? A China and Taiwan Unified team? A nice start would be if the Palestinians would play a game of soccer _against_ the Israelis. It’s a little ridiculous that circumstances see the Israelis play in the Euro cup, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/43 "2010-06-14T00:35:05Z")
> [@digs](#): > > :eek: > > THAT surprises me. > > What’s next? Chinese players joining the Tibetan Fightin’ Monks? An India/Pakistan team? Israelis inviting Palestinians to join together for the World Cup? A China and Taiwan Unified team? > > Medicis joining the Vatican Cardinals? The Jets and the Sharks? Vulcans and Romulans? An Atreides/Harkonnen team? Capulets being asked to join Montague United? Now I want the Jerseys. I want a Tibetan Fightin’ Monks Jersey and Montague United Jersey. I want them bad. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/44 "2010-06-14T01:05:45Z")
So if Andy Murray wins Wimbledon, will England rejoice or not care, since he isn’t English? ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/45 "2010-06-14T01:14:25Z")
> [@Drew\_Kit](#): > > In the early 1990’s I knew some bikers from Fife, and certain words meant something to them but not to Scots from other regions. > > Major examples of Fife patios that is now national patios are: > > WeeGee, now Oujie, to refer to a Glaswegian ( someone from Glasgow ); > English, a strong insult meaning out of control, macho, vindictive; > Nectar, meaning extra especially nice. I fear that this particular bit of slang has yet to spread beyond the community of bikers in Fife, because I have no fucking clue what you are talking about. I have never heard anybody use “English” in that way. Re Andy Murray, he would be a British hero, who incidentally happens to be Scottish, like that cycling guy. I won’t care because I hate tennis, but that’s how it would be. ---
**Author:** ![Drew\_Kit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Drew\_Kit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drew_Kit)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/46 "2010-06-14T01:25:54Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I fear that this particular bit of slang has yet to spread beyond the community of bikers in Fife, because I have no fucking clue what you are talking about. I have never heard anybody use “English” in that way. Have you heard of Weegie and Nectar? If so, you will soon here the word English in the context I mentioned. If not, I doubt you are Scottish. > [@Ximenean](#): > > Re Andy Murray, he would be a British hero, who incidentally happens to be Scottish, like that cycling guy. I won’t care because I hate tennis, but that’s how it would be. See, you misunderstand. Andy Murray is proudly Scottish, whereas that Scottish ‘cycling guy’, Chris Hoy, is proud to be British. Completely different things. ---
**Author:** ![Drew\_Kit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Drew\_Kit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drew_Kit)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/47 "2010-06-14T01:31:49Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > So if Andy Murray wins Wimbledon, will England rejoice or not care, since he isn’t English? England will rejoice because he is a British player winning Wimbledon. Scotland will rejoice because he is a proudly Scottish player playing at the highest level. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/48 "2010-06-14T01:46:36Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Now I want the Jerseys. I want a Tibetan Fightin’ Monks Jersey and Montague United Jersey. I want them bad. And this is why everyone should have a Home SilkScreen T-shirt kit. Or a LOT of time to hand-embroider your very own patch. I’ll admit, I was inspired by a friend who went to Whitman College, a small Christian college whose team was the Fighting Missionaries. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/49 "2010-06-14T04:03:24Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > That’s a fairly contentious point, care to elaborate? Scotland has had a separate legal, religious, educational and in many ways political system for centuries before the unified German state. I’m not German, and I can’t say for sure what the political/legal differences are between the different German states. But Germany was still a collection of independent states a century and a half after Scotland and England merged into a single country. So it’s only very recently that Germans have started to think of themselves as forming a single nation. And today Germany is a federal state, which means that every German state has its own set of laws, its own education system, its own political system, etc. Scotland is definitely distinct from England and from the other countries of the UK, but it’s less autonomous than the German states. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say: you say that Scotland was distinct from England for centuries before the unified German state, that is, when Germany was still a collection of separate states. I agree with this, but it only shows that the idea of Germany as a country is a recent one. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/50 "2010-06-14T15:53:40Z")
> [@merrick](#): > > Pretty much, this. The English/Scottish/Welsh/Irish Football Associations are the oldest national football associations in the world and the first ever international match was between England and Scotland. True. > [@hibernicus](#): > > The Irish rugby team represents the whole island (Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland). This is the result of an entirely opposite situation. The Irish Rugby association was formed before the republic gained independence and it never split into two. A Northern Irish friend of mine severely dislikes the idea that his countrymen compete under the republican tricolor flag. ---
**Author:** ![FrWindyShephardHenderson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@FrWindyShephardHenderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrWindyShephardHenderson)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/51 "2010-06-15T13:23:55Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > A Northern Irish friend of mine severely dislikes the idea that his countrymen compete under the republican tricolor flag. Well your friend is a bit missinformed. The IRFU goes to really ridiculous lengths to avoid using symbols of the republic of ireland. It has its own anthem (Irelands Call) and does not use the tricolour to represent the Irish team. Only when the team plays in the republic is the tricolour flown and Amhrán na bhFiann sung. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland\_national\_rugby\_union\_team#Flags\_and\_anthems](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_national_rugby_union_team#Flags_and_anthems) Just to add also that the Welsh, Scottish and English Rugby Union teams play as seperate countries. Although every four years players from all four countries come together to form the [British and Irish Lions](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_and_Irish_Lions). This whole situation is going to be a real problem for rugby sevens at the olympics, due to the RFU, WRU and SRU having to merge to form a Great Britain team which also should include some of the IRFU players from the north, while the rest of Irish players will make up a Republic of Ireland team. I think a simlar situation exists in Rugby League. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/52 "2010-06-15T13:34:34Z")
> [@Drew\_Kit](#): > > Have you heard of Weegie and Nectar? If so, you will soon here the word English in the context I mentioned. If not, I doubt you are Scottish. How is Weegie Fife slang? It was coined in Edinburgh, as far as I can tell, which makes sense given the historical rivalry between the two cities. I’ve never heard of “nectar” or “English” being used in the sense you describe. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/53 "2010-06-15T14:20:40Z")
> [@Drew\_Kit](#): > > It’s fae Fife. Ah. Nuff said, they do things differently there. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/54 "2010-06-15T14:51:41Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > I’m not German, and I can’t say for sure what the political/legal differences are between the different German states. But Germany was still a collection of independent states a century and a half after Scotland and England merged into a single country. So it’s only very recently that Germans have started to think of themselves as forming a single nation. And today Germany is a federal state, which means that every German state has its own set of laws, its own education system, its own political system, etc. > > Scotland is definitely distinct from England and from the other countries of the UK, but it’s less autonomous than the German states. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say: you say that Scotland was distinct from England for centuries before the unified German state, that is, when Germany was still a collection of separate states. I agree with this, but it only shows that the idea of Germany as a country is a recent one. Hard to fit “Schleswig-Holstein” on the back of a jersey, though. ---
**Author:** ![Drew\_Kit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Drew\_Kit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drew_Kit)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/55 "2010-06-15T22:56:24Z")
Apologies to everyone not interested in Scottish slang for bumping this thread. > [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > How is Weegie Fife slang? It was coined in Edinburgh, as far as I can tell, which makes sense given the historical rivalry between the two cities. I’ve never heard of “nectar” or “English” being used in the sense you describe. I first heard the word ‘weegie’ as a perjorative term for Glaswegians about a decade before I ever saw it written down, certainly before it became popularised. It was always people from Fife that used it to refer to the Glaswegians who holidayed there. None of my Edinburgh friends, relatives and colleagues had heard of the term, nor was it used in the Lothians or further West. Furthermore, I believe I can identify the catalyst for turning a local phrase into common partois. It was the joke “Q) How do you make a Oujie board? A) Take away his Temazapan”. That joke only made sense if you knew the question could read as “How do you make a weegee bored?”, and so people would explain the term to anyone who didn’t get the joke As to calling someone ‘English’ to shame them into better behaviour, again I first heard that in Fife but I’ve heard it all over Scotland now. It is popular because it is effective, but it is used lightly because it is inflammatory in itself. ‘Nectar’ isn’t in as common usage as the others, but I have heard it in Edinburgh and the Lothians. Due to the recent new hip Fife music scene, such as the Fence Collective, I expect that those and other ‘Fifisms’ will soon be taken as national partois the way you mistook As a further aside, the only truly phrase in my lifetime that definitely singled someone out as being from Edinburgh is the old phrase ‘barry’, as in ‘that was barry’. It meant the same as ‘nectar’. No one from the Lothians or any other part of Scotland ever used the phrase. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/56 "2010-06-15T23:45:07Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Hard to fit “Schleswig-Holstein” on the back of a jersey, though. If Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink can get his name on a [jersey](http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/9885/image022pj8lr3.jpg), I am sure they can manage. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/57 "2010-06-15T23:59:33Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > I’m not German, and I can’t say for sure what the political/legal differences are between the different German states. But Germany was still a collection of independent states a century and a half after Scotland and England merged into a single country. So it’s only very recently that Germans have started to think of themselves as forming a single nation. And today Germany is a federal state, which means that every German state has its own set of laws, its own education system, its own political system, etc. > > Scotland is definitely distinct from England and from the other countries of the UK, but it’s less autonomous than the German states. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say: you say that Scotland was distinct from England for centuries before the unified German state, that is, when Germany was still a collection of separate states. I agree with this, but it only shows that the idea of Germany as a country is a recent one. Huh? Scotland has its own government, education system, healthcare, etc. Wales has the same education system as England and is generally the same when it comes to things like state benefits, but does have its own healthcare system and parliament. Northern Ireland is yet more independent. I just started to explain the ways in which the educational systems are different and gave up because there’s very little about them that’s similar. Simpler examples are Wales having free prescriptions for outpatients, whereas the rest of the UK has to pay, NI not having legal abortion (yes, really), the BBC running Welsh, Irish and Scottish language tv stations, Scottish local courts being run by sheriffs … God, there are tons. I’ve lived in Germany as well, and the differences between the various parts of Western Germany were on nothing like that scale. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/58 "2010-06-16T01:27:30Z")
Actually, the US has as many national teams eligible to qualify for the World Cup as the UK: the US, Puerto Rico (as previously mentioned), [Guam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guam_national_football_team), and [American Samoa](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Samoa_national_football_team). Of course, the last three of those have about as much chance of qualifying for the World Cup as seeing a North Korea-New Zealand final. In fact, American Samoa is ranked dead last in the world, and Guam has withdrawn from the last two qualifying tournaments. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/59 "2010-06-16T16:28:24Z")
> [@charlie145](#): > > You can watch that team, they are playing USA shortly 😉 > > I honestly don’t think any Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish players would get into the starting 11 for England. Garreth Bale made an awfully good case this past year. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900/60 "2010-06-19T15:20:04Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Nothing like that happens in the US. You don’t see different regions specializing in baseball, football, and basketball. Not many pro hockey players from Mississippi. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-england-compete-as-a-separate-entity-in-the-world-cup-instead-of-a-uk-team/542900.md?page=2)