# Why does English lack a "bon appetite"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 27, 2008, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751 "2008-05-27T12:32:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![unspun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b9bd4f/32.png) [@unspun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unspun)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/1 "2008-05-27T12:32:22Z")
I realize there is no Mr English to explain about his oversight while compiling words and phrases, but it seems strange to me that something so obvious and ‘necessary’ would be lacking from old English or other Germanic roots. Was “enjoy your meal” sufficient? ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/2 "2008-05-27T12:40:02Z")
\ Have you tasted English food? \ ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/3 "2008-05-27T12:46:50Z")
I guess it’s a fairly modern thing to wish a ‘good appetite’ upon each other. I think it’s a habit that spread over Europe from France, probably because French was the language of the courts, the elites and of diplomacy. German (Guten Appetit) and Russian (хорошего аппетита - khoroshego appetita) have basically translated it from the French; The English must have been too proud to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/4 "2008-05-27T13:50:42Z")
[QUOTE=sandra\_nz] \ Have you tasted English food? \ [/QUOTE] Word for word what I was about to say. You have to get up pretty early round here… Non-pretentious folk say “Tuck in” or “Get that down yer”, by the way… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/5 "2008-05-27T14:06:31Z")
[nitpick] Well, strictly speaking, the French language **also** lacks a “bon appetite”, since it’s “_bon appétit!_”. The only reason that this nitpick exceeds the level of “pointing out a typo” is that many people – especially in the US, in my experience – pronounce the phrase in a pseudo-French way, but with a terminal “T” sound, which is just plain wrong. [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/6 "2008-05-27T14:13:19Z")
“Eat hearty” strikes me as functionally equivalent. Not that having functionally equivalent words in English has ever stopped us from raiding the lexicons (lexica?) of other countries. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/7 "2008-05-27T14:18:01Z")
[QUOTE=sandra\_nz] \ Have you tasted English food? \ [/QUOTE] Dad has some sort of idea that you should never have a sauce with food, the food should be good enough without. He bases this on the lack of English sauce pots found by archaeologists, the French had tonnes of them to hide their awful food, the English didn’t need them. Times change eh? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/8 "2008-05-27T15:35:10Z")
[QUOTE=Pushkin] Dad has some sort of idea that you should never have a sauce with food, the food should be good enough without. He bases this on the lack of English sauce pots found by archaeologists, the French had tonnes of them to hide their awful food, the English didn’t need them. Times change eh? [/QUOTE] How does he explain [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worcestershire_sauce)? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/9 "2008-05-27T18:07:22Z")
This seems like a very strange question to me. Every language contains some ideas that are very easy to express and others that are difficult. That’s one reason language borrowing is so common when cultural groups come into contact with each other. Compare “Schadenfreude” in English with “le weekend” in French. Ed ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/10 "2008-05-27T18:40:20Z")
[QUOTE=Antonius Block] The only reason that this nitpick exceeds the level of “pointing out a typo” is that many people – especially in the US, in my experience – pronounce the phrase in a pseudo-French way, but with a terminal “T” sound, which is just plain wrong. [/QUOTE] Even worse, people who want to sound French and drop the r sound at the end of “armoire”, or the ess sound at the end of coup de grace. :smack: /wandering farther afield ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/11 "2008-05-27T18:43:27Z")
There certainly are English phrases that come from other languages (Schadenefreude already mentioned, zugswang is another). But surely ‘enjoy your meal’ is the rough equivalent of ‘bon appetit’? ---
**Author:** ![justrob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/12 "2008-05-27T19:04:02Z")
Why would English need a phrase that is so easily stolen? That is what English does, finds words and phrases it likes in other languages. Lures the other language into a dark alley and mugs it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/13 "2008-05-27T19:06:06Z")
[QUOTE=justrob] Why would English need a phrase that is so easily stolen? That is what English does, finds words and phrases it likes in other languages. Lures the other language into a dark alley and mugs it. [/QUOTE] Like every other language, of course [at least, ones whose speakers have regular contact with those of other languages]. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/14 "2008-05-27T19:10:59Z")
[QUOTE=suranyi] This seems like a very strange question to me. Every language contains some ideas that are very easy to express and others that are difficult. That’s one reason language borrowing is so common when cultural groups come into contact with each other. Compare “Schadenfreude” in English with “le weekend” in French. [/QUOTE] The idea of “schadenfreude” was very easy to express in English well before it borrowed the German word, just as easy as any other natural human concept; no one ever sat around thinking “I wonder how to say ‘joy at others’ misfortune’. If only we had a single word for it (I find short phrases so very difficult to use!)… ‘Harm-joy’ won’t do, will it?”. Of course, now that we’ve borrowed the word, it’s usefully serving in that role, but it’s not as though we _needed_ it to plug a hole which would otherwise have bothered us. ---
**Author:** ![unspun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b9bd4f/32.png) [@unspun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unspun)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/15 "2008-05-27T22:02:41Z")
[QUOTE=Antonius Block] [nitpick] Well, strictly speaking, the French language **also** lacks a “bon appetite”, since it’s “_bon appétit!_”. The only reason that this nitpick exceeds the level of “pointing out a typo” is that many people – especially in the US, in my experience – pronounce the phrase in a pseudo-French way, but with a terminal “T” sound, which is just plain wrong. [/nitpick] [/QUOTE] quite right, even as I was clicking submit I felt something was fundamentally wrong with the post but couldn’t quite put my finger on it… damn e slipped out ---
**Author:** ![Borg\_Erst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58f4c7/32.png) [@Borg\_Erst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borg_Erst)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/16 "2008-05-27T22:26:27Z")
Doesn’t “Cheers” cover food as well as drink? Works for me. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/17 "2008-05-27T23:28:06Z")
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable] The idea of “schadenfreude” was very easy to express in English well before it borrowed the German word, just as easy as any other natural human concept; no one ever sat around thinking “I wonder how to say ‘joy at others’ misfortune’. If only we had a single word for it (I find short phrases so very difficult to use!)… ‘Harm-joy’ won’t do, will it?”. Of course, now that we’ve borrowed the word, it’s usefully serving in that role, but it’s not as though we _needed_ it to plug a hole which would otherwise have bothered us. [/QUOTE] You’re right, of course. What I meant, but didn’t feel like typing out completely, is that some thoughts can be expressed more concisely in one language vs. another. So if there’s a somewhat “better” way of putting the same idea in another language (with “better” being a subjective idea, hence the quotes), and there’s contact between the two languages, there may be borrowing. My main point was that I don’t think there’s anything special about “bon appetit”, nor anything special about French being the source and English being the borrower. I wanted to avoid any discussion of the details. Ed ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/18 "2008-05-28T03:12:06Z")
What do you mean, English doesn’t have an equivalent? “Enjoy your meal” _is_ the English equivalent. It’s not a single word, but then, neither is the French. And they both have the same number of syllables. What’s the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/19 "2008-05-28T06:33:31Z")
[QUOTE=Švejk] I guess it’s a fairly modern thing to wish a ‘good appetite’ upon each other. I think it’s a habit that spread over Europe from France, probably because French was the language of the courts, the elites and of diplomacy. German (Guten Appetit) and Russian (хорошего аппетита - khoroshego appetita) have basically translated it from the French; The English must have been too proud to do so. [/QUOTE] The Hungarian ‘egészségedre’ (‘to your health’) does not follow this pattern… I’ve actually wondered the same as the OP. I think we don’t have such a phrase, because we (well, Americans, anyway. How about other Anglophones?) don’t observe the custom which requires one. (Saying a certain set phrase at table before eating.) A Hungarian asked me what phrase we say before eating, and we had a moment of cultural disconnect where I explained that we say nothing :eek: and just eat. Hungarian waiters trying to do this in English is always weird. (They either say ‘good appetite’ or ‘bon appetite.’) Of course, all of this begs the question: why do some cultures do this while others don’t? **Chronos** : There absolutely is a difference. We aren’t required by custom to say ‘enjoy your meal’ before every meal at table with multiple people. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/20 "2008-05-28T09:07:28Z")
Spanish uses “buen provecho,” meaning something like “may the meal do you well.” If the people who created each language had thought the exact same way, we wouldn’t have many languages. This is even more true for languages with common roots, like the Latin group. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751.md?page=2)