# Why does English lack a "bon appetite"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 27, 2008, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751 "2008-05-27T12:32:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/21 "2008-05-28T19:07:41Z")
[QUOTE=Jamaika a jamaikaiaké] The Hungarian ‘egészségedre’ (‘to your health’) does not follow this pattern… I’ve actually wondered the same as the OP. I think we don’t have such a phrase, because we (well, Americans, anyway. How about other Anglophones?) don’t observe the custom which requires one. (Saying a certain set phrase at table before eating.) A Hungarian asked me what phrase we say before eating, and we had a moment of cultural disconnect where I explained that we say nothing :eek: and just eat. Hungarian waiters trying to do this in English is always weird. (They either say ‘good appetite’ or ‘bon appetite.’) Of course, all of this begs the question: why do some cultures do this while others don’t? **Chronos** : There absolutely is a difference. We aren’t required by custom to say ‘enjoy your meal’ before every meal at table with multiple people. [/QUOTE] The last is the major difference IMO. What’s used as the ‘starter pistol’ signal at a convival meal, then? What I am used to in German social occasions e.g. family gatherings, dinner invitations: the meal is on the table but it would be crass and greedy to begin eating individually. So, a small silence and then the host/hostess/boss/highest-status person says _Guten Appetit_ or something to that effect e.g. _Laßt es Euch schmecken_ and everybody tucks in. I have heard _Guten Appetit_ or something to that effect even used on occasion where a person said Grace before the meal (normally when saying Grace is finished that would be a sufficient starter pistol signal) There are also occasions where in a restaurant, when the last person’s meal hasn’t been served yet, that person can say _Guten Appetit_ by way of giving permission to the others not to wait for him. Or, when a subset has ordered a starter, the others can say that, also meaning “Do start to eat, we don’t mind”. Are there really no set phrases for that function in English usage? ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/22 "2008-05-28T20:09:38Z")
Since most English speakers will understand it, I just say, “Bon appétit.” English doesn’t feel the need to translate all phrases before using them. Though, to be honest, I’m not often formal enough to say anything. Sometimes, I wish I remembered the Klingon phrase, which I believe translates as, “Eat this or I’ll stuff it down the gullet of your corpse.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/23 "2008-05-28T20:55:48Z")
[QUOTE=Saltire] Since most English speakers will understand it, I just say, “Bon appétit.” English doesn’t feel the need to translate all phrases before using them. Though, to be honest, I’m not often formal enough to say anything. Sometimes, I wish I remembered the Klingon phrase, which I believe translates as, “Eat this or I’ll stuff it down the gullet of your corpse.” 😃 [/QUOTE] And they’ll understand chic, hommage, chalet, bouquet, and most of the large percentage of French words in English. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/24 "2008-05-29T00:33:02Z")
[QUOTE=gigi] Even worse, people who want to sound French and drop the r sound at the end of “armoire”, or the ess sound at the end of coup de grace. :smack: /wandering farther afield [/QUOTE] \ Huh? Arm-mwah, Ku-day-grahc… how else would one pronounce these? Or was that a “Le Whoosh” sound I heard? 🙂 \ ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/25 "2008-05-29T00:47:01Z")
addendum: nevermind, I could just as easily be misreading / "mishearing"what **gigi** wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/26 "2008-05-29T01:43:00Z")
[QUOTE=Apollyon] \ Huh? Arm-mwah, Ku-day-grahc… how else would one pronounce these? Or was that a “Le Whoosh” sound I heard? 🙂 \ [/QUOTE] (The trouble with “phonetic” spelling: it’s so difficult to know what one means by it. I assume by “grahc”, you mean something ending in an “ess” sound, close to rhyming with “cross”?) Anyway, alternatives are that one could say “arm-mwar” or “ku-day-grah”. **gigi** is saying that “arm-mwar” and “ku-day-grahc” (ending in an “ess” sound) are faithful to the original French, while “arm-mwah” and “ku-day-grah” are not. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/27 "2008-05-29T04:44:56Z")
[QUOTE=tschild] Are there really no set phrases for that function in English usage? [/QUOTE] Really, there aren’t. Crazy, huh? ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/28 "2008-05-29T06:36:40Z")
[QUOTE=Jamaika a jamaikaiaké] **Chronos** : There absolutely is a difference. We aren’t required by custom to say ‘enjoy your meal’ before every meal at table with multiple people. [/QUOTE] But that’s not a difference in language at all – just a difference in the customs of two different cultures. There certainly are plenty of English phrases that could be used to indicate “start eating now”. “Dig in!”, “Enjoy!”, “Dinner is served!”, “Don’t let it get cold!”, etc., etc. But customarily you don’t need an invitation to start eating. In different circles you start eating when the food is placed in front of you, or after food is placed in front of everyone at the table, or after saying grace, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/29 "2008-05-29T06:43:37Z")
In short: The _language_ has plenty of ways to say “start eating”. The _culture_ just doesn’t require you to always use one, and thus no one such phrase has become the standard. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/30 "2008-05-29T16:45:29Z")
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable] Anyway, alternatives are that one could say “arm-mwar” or “ku-day-grah”. **gigi** is saying that “arm-mwar” and “ku-day-grahc” (ending in an “ess” sound) are faithful to the original French, while “arm-mwah” and “ku-day-grah” are not. [/QUOTE] Yes, thank you. People take the “The French drop all ending consonants” too far and drop them when they shouldn’t. Coo-duh-grah would be hitting someone with fat, non? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/31 "2008-05-29T17:26:52Z")
[QUOTE=tim314] But that’s not a difference in language at all – just a difference in the customs of two different cultures. [/QUOTE] I think I agree. ---
**Author:** ![TroubleAgain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@TroubleAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroubleAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/32 "2008-05-29T17:35:33Z")
In a lot of settings, the only “signal” to begin eating is for someone to say grace, then everyone to say “amen” and start eating. I personally like to say “grab it and growl”, but YMMV. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/33 "2008-05-29T17:40:02Z")
[QUOTE=Jamaika a jamaikaiaké] The Hungarian ‘egészségedre’ (‘to your health’) does not follow this pattern… [/QUOTE] Sure it does. I generally use _egészségedre_ for drinks. For food, it’s usually _jo étvágyat_, which is “good appetite.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/34 "2008-05-29T17:45:38Z")
The French court/elite language theory doesn’t work in Polish, though, where the word for bon appetit is _smacznego_, which is derived from _smaczny,_ meaning “tasty.” ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/35 "2008-05-29T20:36:57Z")
[QUOTE=tim314] In short: The _language_ has plenty of ways to say “start eating”. The _culture_ just doesn’t require you to always use one, and thus no one such phrase has become the standard. [/QUOTE] Exactly. I grew up with a German mother and I “get” this in a way I think most Americans don’t. American households (nor British, as far as I can tell) don’t have this custom, so there isn’t a phrase that is used. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/36 "2008-05-29T20:51:19Z")
[QUOTE=Brynda] Exactly. I grew up with a German mother and I “get” this in a way I think most Americans don’t. American households (nor British, as far as I can tell) don’t have this custom, so there isn’t a phrase that is used. [/QUOTE] Oh, I don’t know. I often pause at dinner before eating, just because enough people say grace that I never feel safe assuming we can just dig in. I grew up in a British-derived household and we always paused before eating. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/37 "2008-05-29T21:00:26Z")
At my house, we usually say grace, so the eating begins with “Amen!” Other times, “let’s eat!” will do. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/38 "2008-05-29T21:22:48Z")
[QUOTE=Skammer] At my house, we usually say grace, so the eating begins with “Amen!” Other times, “let’s eat!” will do. [/QUOTE] Unless you’re having noodles, in which case you use “RAmen”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/39 "2008-05-29T22:07:34Z")
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable] Anyway, alternatives are that one could say “arm-mwar” or “ku-day-grah”. **gigi** is saying that “arm-mwar” and “ku-day-grahc” (ending in an “ess” sound) are faithful to the original French, while “arm-mwah” and “ku-day-grah” are not. [/QUOTE] But “de” is not pronounced “day”. Why do people insist on pronouncing all Es in French words as if they had acute accents on them? I won’t even go into the horror that is “lahn-jerr-ay”… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751/40 "2008-05-29T22:47:20Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] Sure it does. I generally use _egészségedre_ for drinks. For food, it’s usually _jo étvágyat_, which is “good appetite.” [/QUOTE] Holy crap did I mess that up… Thanks for the correction. I haven’t had a chance to use Hungarian for the last couple of years, so it kind of got jumbled around in my head(I’m not a native speaker.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-lack-a-bon-appetite/450751.md?page=3)