# Why Does English require the letter "y"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 17, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189 "2003-01-17T06:20:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.A.Nemo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/94ad74/32.png) [@Mr.A.Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.A.Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/1 "2003-01-17T06:20:31Z")
To me, it seems extraneous. In that other letters can be substitued readily. How did “y” find itself into the english alphabet and why? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/2 "2003-01-17T06:25:17Z")
I fail to understand. Do you suggest spelling ‘yellow’ as ‘jellow’, Or perhaps spell ‘yon’ as ‘ion’ or ‘Jon’? Isn’t that going to get a little confusing? If you were going to pick on letters, I would have thought that ‘Z’ and ‘K’ would have been the obvious ones to pick on, since in most cases they really can be replaced with no confusion. On the other hand we have need in English for a ‘Y’ sound. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/3 "2003-01-17T06:25:40Z")
> [@](#): > > y > > - \Y-, or I- \I-\ . [OE. y-, i-, AS. ge-, akin to D. & G. ge-, OHG. gi-, ga-, Goth. ga-, and perhaps to Latin con-; originally meaning, together. Cf. Com-, Aware, Enough, Handiwork, Ywis.] A prefix of obscure meaning, originally used with verbs, adverbs, adjectives, nouns, and pronouns. In the Middle English period, it was little employed except with verbs, being chiefly used with past participles, though occasionally with the infinitive Ycleped, or yclept, is perhaps the only word not entirely obsolete which shows this use. > > That no wight mighte it see neither yheere. --Chaucer. > > Neither to ben yburied nor ybrent. --Chaucer. > > Note: Some examples of Chaucer’s use of this prefix are; ibe, ibeen, icaught, ycome, ydo, idoon, ygo, iproved, ywrought. It inough, enough, it is combined with an adjective. Other examples are in the Vocabulary. Spenser and later writers frequently employed this prefix when affecting an archaic style, and sometimes used it incorrectly. > > Source: Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. There? _shrugs_ I always thought it represented a short “i”. It is generally looked at like that in other languages (that, or an accented “i”) ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/4 "2003-01-17T06:34:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blake \* > **I fail to understand. Do you suggest spelling ‘yellow’ as ‘jellow’, Or perhaps spell ‘yon’ as ‘ion’ or ‘Jon’? Isn’t that going to get a little confusing?** “Yon”? O\_o Interesting choice. “Your” makes more sense. “Your” isn’t nearly the same as “ur” (really, “you” isn’t like “u” either)… they have a soft “i” sound, as you point out in the difference between “ellow” and “yellow”… it could be expressed “i`ellow”, I suppose, but English doens’t use accents. Hell, look at poor Russian. They have a half dozen i/e sounds (i, i`, [y]eh, [y]oh, ya, and ee) that frequenly get strung together. > [@](#): > > \*\*If you were going to pick on letters, I would have thought that ‘Z’ and ‘K’ would have been the obvious ones to pick on \*\* Really? How do you spell “zoo” without “z”? I would follow other languages and drop the useless S, replacing it with a soft C, hard K, and slurred Z. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/5 "2003-01-17T06:43:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blake \* > **I fail to understand. Do you suggest spelling ‘yellow’ as ‘jellow’, Or perhaps spell ‘yon’ as ‘ion’ or ‘Jon’? Isn’t that going to get a little confusing?** “Yon”? O\_o Interesting choice. “Your” makes more sense. “Your” isn’t nearly the same as “ur” (really, “you” isn’t like “u” either)… they have a soft “i” sound, as you point out in the difference between “ellow” and “yellow”… it could be expressed “i`ellow”, I suppose, but English doens’t use accents. Hell, look at poor Russian. They have a half dozen i/e sounds (i, i`, [y]eh, [y]oh, ya, and ee) that frequenly get strung together. > [@](#): > > \*\*If you were going to pick on letters, I would have thought that ‘Z’ and ‘K’ would have been the obvious ones to pick on \*\* Really? How do you spell “zoo” without “z”? I would follow other languages and drop the useless S, replacing it with a soft C, hard K, and slurred Z. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/6 "2003-01-17T06:51:45Z")
Y apparently found its way into the alphabet after the Roman conquest of Greece in 1 AD. The greek letter Upsilon was adopted into the Latin alphaber as the letter Y to transliterate borrowed Greek words into Latin. Upsilon had a ue sound that Latin didn’t have, so it took on the sound of its nearest Latin equivalent, i. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/7 "2003-01-17T06:58:47Z")
Well, I did say it could mostly be replaced. It’s mostly the AMerican inability to distinguish between suit (syoot) and soot that causes the problem. 😉 And I picked ‘Yon’ simply because we alraedy have the words ‘Jon’ and ‘ion’. There’s no such word as ‘iour’, or even ‘jour’ doesn’t really exist in english so eitehr would be suitable alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/8 "2003-01-17T06:59:52Z")
Y? Y not? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.A.Nemo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/94ad74/32.png) [@Mr.A.Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.A.Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/9 "2003-01-17T07:04:32Z")
Ugh… seems I didn’t think it through for many many words. I was mostly thinking that a final letter, where “y” sounds like “ee” is unnecessary and better replaced with “i” or “ee”. But if anyone would like to tackle “c” versus “k” while we’re here… feel free. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/10 "2003-01-17T12:29:42Z")
I’d drop C. It’s redundant with S and K. ---
**Author:** ![DRomm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@DRomm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DRomm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/11 "2003-01-17T12:47:47Z")
Perhaps we _should_ convert to the Decibet, the ten character alphabet as described by Dan Aykroyd on SNL, transcribed [http://snltranscripts.jt.org/75/75rdecabet.phtml](http://snltranscripts.jt.org/75/75rdecabet.phtml) . Life would be soooo much simpler. ---
**Author:** ![Popup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Popup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Popup)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/12 "2003-01-17T12:50:13Z")
If you really have to get rid of a character, than why not choose the real latecomer in the bunch **J**. **Cecil** on I / J in [Why is there an I Street and a K Street but no J Street in Washington, D.C.?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_262b.html) > [@](#): > > J is a late addition to the alphabet, having initially been introduced as an alternative form of I. It began to be used to signify our modern consonant J around 1600, but the two letters continued to be used interchangeably for years thereafter, e.g., jngeniously, ieweller. As late as 1820 some dictionaries still weren’t alphabetizing I and J words separately. ---
**Author:** ![nineiron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e56c9b/32.png) [@nineiron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nineiron)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/13 "2003-01-17T13:05:10Z")
How would my middle-aged relatives then do the YMCA dance at weddings? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/14 "2003-01-17T13:26:47Z")
If you did eliminate Y, what advantage would it be? Why is having a “redundant” letter a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/15 "2003-01-17T13:28:19Z")
In Spanish the letters I and Y are called, respectively, Latin I and Greek I. ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_Holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@Mycroft\_Holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_Holmes)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/16 "2003-01-17T13:34:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DRomm \* > \*\*Perhaps we _should_ convert to the Decibet, the ten character alphabet as described by Dan Aykroyd on SNL, transcribed [http://snltranscripts.jt.org/75/75rdecabet.phtml](http://snltranscripts.jt.org/75/75rdecabet.phtml) . Life would be soooo much simpler. \*\* [This](http://www.tiscarolsplace.com/Humor/chenglish.htm) might help also. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/17 "2003-01-17T13:42:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diceman \* > \*\*I’d drop C. It’s redundant with S and K. \*\* Fine, but how would you spell chat, patches or Charlie’s Cheese Chateaux? ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/18 "2003-01-17T14:39:05Z")
Dropping C would wreak havoc on cuss words: Fuk you! Dik sukker! Wrap your lips around my big kok! Kunt! ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/19 "2003-01-17T15:10:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skammer \* > \*\*Fine, but how would you spell chat, patches or Charlie’s Cheese Chateaux? \*\* shat, patshes, and sharlies sheese shato of corse ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189/20 "2003-01-17T15:19:01Z")
Whie not drop the letter wie? Ies, interesting question. I can’t possiblee think of anee use it has. Except, since it currentlee has several different uses, I personallee feel that to replace its functionalitee, we’d have to devise several different vowel combinations, thus increasing the amount of ink used, and therefore not being as environmentalee friendlee. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-english-require-the-letter-y/149189.md?page=2)