# Why does every damn social meeting have to involve the whole fucking family? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 10, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236 "2011-08-10T19:02:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/141 "2011-08-11T20:59:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You’re saying that fathers who prefer to stay home with their families rather than go out drinking at strip joints with developmentally arrested retards are “unhealthy?” I’ve seen bigger excluded middles, and I’ve seen bigger wooshes, but I’ve never seen both put together just this way. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/142 "2011-08-11T21:02:03Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Hilarious. People who choose to live their lives differently than you don’t cease to be individuals. That’s moronic. \ Living your lives completely for your kids and not ever allowing yourself any time without them and not allowing yourself any interests that they aren’t the centre of is not simply a different lifestyle choice - it’s unhealthy for everyone involved. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/143 "2011-08-11T21:05:57Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > That sentence just gets sadder and sadder the further it goes. I know you probably don’t want my advice, but **Dio** , you are neglecting your own marriage and the relationship you have with the most important person in your life. I don’t know _why_ you’re doing that, but that is what you’re doing. And people are calling ME judgmental. What the fuck do you know about my marriage (or anyone else’s)? > [@](#): > > Like, you don’t even watch some TV program together after the kids are in bed? Do a crossword together? _Nothing?_ Don’t be obtuse. It’s not that extreme. I meant that we don’t get, like, a whole day together or a night away from the kids. Of course we have some time together here and there after the kids are in bed. I’m talking about significant get away time. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/144 "2011-08-11T21:08:15Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Living your lives completely for your kids and not ever allowing yourself any time without them and not allowing yourself any interests that they aren’t the centre of is not simply a different lifestyle choice - it’s unhealthy for everyone involved. While I don’t live such a lifestyle, I doubt seriously that it’s as unhealthy as you think. You’re basically describing the vast majority of families that existed prior to the early 20th Century. Additionally, I’m not seeing anyone in this thread who is saying they have absolutely no interests outside of their children and spouse. Even Dio watches football, reads books, etc. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/145 "2011-08-11T21:12:09Z")
\*\*Dio \*\*- Since it doesn’t seem anyone else has said so, I wanted to chime in to say that I feel almost 100% the same way about spending time with my family as you do. Do I enjoy some alone time now and then, or time with my buddies? Sure I do, as does she. But it’s very very rare that either of us actually want to do those things. There’s just honestly nobody else I’d rather be hanging out with than my family a vast majority of the time. If that means I have an unhealthy and co-dependent relationship… then I embrace those labels. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/146 "2011-08-11T21:12:41Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > When I was a kid and one of my parents would go do his/her own thing, I didn’t think of it as times when Mom/Dad was gone–I thought of it as time I got to spend with just Dad/Mom. Exactly. And that time is important–the fact that I have a close relationship with my parents as an adult is mainly due to the one-on-one time we spent together when I was a kid. Almost everything I know about them as _people_ I learned when it was just the two of us because that was when there was time and quiet and privacy to have the deeper conversations, and if I had only known and appreciated them as parents rather than people…well, the relationship would have dwindled along with my need for hands-on parenting. And let’s face it, part of what made them interesting people I wanted to be around was that they had a life outside of the family. Then too there’s the practical aspect of it: your kids will eventually grow up and form lives of their own. If you’ve let all your friendships and hobbies and even your romantic relationship with your spouse fall by the wayside, what will you have left besides your job? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/147 "2011-08-11T21:16:07Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > While I don’t live such a lifestyle, I doubt seriously that it’s as unhealthy as you think. You’re basically describing the vast majority of families that existed prior to the early 20th Century. Additionally, I’m not seeing anyone in this thread who is saying they have absolutely no interests outside of their children and spouse. Even Dio watches football, reads books, etc. Thank you. I also have a job, and I interact with people outside my family in a variety of ways online and off. I’m not some shut-in who never sees the sun. I’m just not that much of a casual socializer anymore. Once in a while, I’ll still go do something with a friend (or my wife will). There aren’t any control issues. We’re both just essentially introverted people anyway and prefer to stay home. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/148 "2011-08-11T21:16:15Z")
The whole point of raising children is to give them the skills to get the hell out of your house. What exactly are you going to do with yourself when that happens if you’ve let everyone else in your life fall away? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/149 "2011-08-11T21:19:07Z")
I have no idea what you’re asking. Why does it take “skills” to get out of the house? ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/150 "2011-08-11T21:22:44Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > The whole point of raising children is to give them the skills to get the hell out of your house. What exactly are you going to do with yourself when that happens if you’ve let everyone else in your life fall away? Of course, if you take the kids with you, they’ll you getting out of the house firsthand. I actually don’t have kids, and I do hang out with my friends (not generally alone, as I mentioned), but I know plenty of people who do nearly all of their socializing with extended family and old family friends, kids in tow, and they don’t seem to be unhealthy or lack interests and hobbies. Not continuing to hang out with one’s single friends sans family does not doom one to the life of an antisocial shut-in. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/151 "2011-08-11T21:23:20Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > The whole point of raising children is to give them the skills to get the hell out of your house. What exactly are you going to do with yourself when that happens if you’ve let everyone else in your life fall away? Travel the world, take up new hobbies, make new friends, rekindle relationships when the kids hit middle school, enjoy being introverts, etc. It isn’t much different than a couple that moves to a new city. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/152 "2011-08-11T21:29:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You’re saying that fathers who prefer to stay home with their families rather than go out drinking at strip joints with developmentally arrested retards are “unhealthy?” > > You pretty much don’t know shit about shit. Considering your first paragraph there, I’m going to take the second one as a compliment coming from you. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/153 "2011-08-11T21:30:30Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > \*\*Dio \*\*- Since it doesn’t seem anyone else has said so, I wanted to chime in to say that I feel almost 100% the same way about spending time with my family as you do. > > Do I enjoy some alone time now and then, or time with my buddies? Sure I do, as does she. But it’s very very rare that either of us actually want to do those things. There’s just honestly nobody else I’d rather be hanging out with than my family a vast majority of the time. If that means I have an unhealthy and co-dependent relationship… then I embrace those labels. My family works the same way. My husband is away from us all week while he’s at work. He loves spending time with me and the kids on the weekends and it’s rare, even though I encourage it, for him to make plans without us. We have a lot of friends, though - they almost all have kids and we do stuff together as families. The alternative to lots of guys (or girls) nights out is not total social isolation. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/154 "2011-08-11T22:09:44Z")
I have lived my life more on the girls night out side of the equation in this thread. I have annual vacations with my two closest friends, sometimes with kids but generally with only adults. We also have what used to be monthly dinners but are now somewhat more sporadic. Unfortunately, our social life is declining anyway, not because of our children but because of our jobs. Between the three of us in the last 2 years we’ve had two new jobs and two significant promotions. (One of us is very very good and very lucky too. Not me sadly) However this: > [@C3](#): > > The alternative to lots of guys (or girls) nights out is not total social isolation. Quoted for truth. Sometimes when your life changes it seems like the right time to stop hanging out with people who have gone in a different direction than you. It’s not you, it’s not me, we’re just different people than when we were kids. It’s like divorce but for friends and it doesn’t always mean that the new spouse or kids have changed them, sometimes they changed and that’s why they have the new spouse or kid. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/155 "2011-08-11T22:25:28Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > Yeah, I do. That’s why I wear black to baby showers. Because I know that’s the last time I’m going to see my friend for about 20 years. I just write 'em right off and stick with my childless friends. I’ve been fortunate that most of my friends either chose not to have kids, or I met them after their kids were grown enough to not be an issue. > [@Leaffan](#): > > This has been my life for 17 years. Maybe your friends are in a similar situation? > > It’s not fun. > > On the other hand if she wanted to go out without me, naturally I would be thrilled. But that never happens. She has no life and has made sure I don’t either. Yay me. This sounds so sad. Since your kids are getting close to moving-out age, can you start pulling away more now? Going out for a beer or three after work without telling her ahead of time? You know - call and say “hey wife, so and so and I stopped at such and such a bar for a couple of beers so I’m going to be a bit late”. Not every night, or even every week, but as a start? > [@Acsenray](#): > > What if I said this: Anyone who considers spending time with their children without having his or her spouse also present as being “stuck with the kids” probably should not have made a family to begin with. Yes, I thought the point of having kids was because you like them and want to be around them. When my husband travels, I don’t view it as being “stuck with the pets”, and vice versa. > [@DoctorJ](#): > > When I was a kid and one of my parents would go do his/her own thing, I didn’t think of it as times when Mom/Dad was gone–I thought of it as time I got to spend with just Dad/Mom. Just like when they would go away for the weekend, and it wasn’t time when Mom and Dad dumped me off, it was time I got to spend with my grandparents. > > I think one of the most important things you can do as a parent, aside from the whole feeding/clothing/educating/protecting from wolves type stuff, is to be a fully formed adult with adult interests, adult relationships, and adult achievements. How can you expect the kids to form their own identities if their parents don’t have identities themselves?? This! > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You’re saying that fathers who prefer to stay home with their families rather than go out drinking at strip joints with developmentally arrested retards are “unhealthy?” Going out with guy friends doesn’t have to mean strip joints - I’m not sure my husband has ever been to a strip joint, but he doesn’t lack in guy friends or time with them. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Once in a while, I’ll still go do something with a friend (or my wife will). There aren’t any control issues. We’re both just essentially introverted people anyway and prefer to stay home. In other words, your situation is different, in that you are an introvert and don’t really want to go out anyway. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/156 "2011-08-11T22:45:55Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > ..This sounds so sad. Since your kids are getting close to moving-out age, can you start pulling away more now? Going out for a beer or three after work without telling her ahead of time? You know - call and say “hey wife, so and so and I stopped at such and such a bar for a couple of beers so I’m going to be a bit late”. Not every night, or even every week, but as a start?.. My first thought was, “That’s actually a pretty good suggestion,” but my next thought was “… but will it be worth the inevitable shitstorm he’ll come home to?” People don’t get this controlling by not flipping the holy fuck out when you do something “wrong.” ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/157 "2011-08-11T22:52:19Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > … > > On the other hand if she wanted to go out without me, naturally I would be thrilled. But that never happens. She has no life and has made sure I don’t either. Yay me. ``` Are you my brother-in-law? About the only difference is that he and my sister don't live in a rural area.He avoids conflict so -- she can't possibly go to the library within walking distance, he has to be available to drive her to the further one, because she won't drive. She has a license, but she just won't drive. She doesn't like his friends, and doesn't have any of her own so he can't hang out with his. She doesn't like to be with the extended family, so when there's an event her husband and kids can't go. The can only do what she likes to do- she doesn't like amusement parks so her husband and kids can't go. When she lived next door to me, her husband and son came over to watch a football game, and had to go home because "she didn't know how to use the microwave" and on and on and on. Because he avoids conflict , she believes he'll never leave, so she sees no need for counseling. If he's not going to leave, there's no reason for her to change her behavior.He won't leave - yet. Because his parents got divorced and his father essentially abandoned him, and he won't do that to his kids. He doesn't have the imagination to look at other divorced fathers he knows who spend time with their kids, or to realize if he divorces her and gets custody he'll have less work or even to realize she probably wouldn't *want* custody. He's going to leave all right- the day the youngest kid turns 18, he says. Meanwhile, he's miserable, the kids (now 13 and 16) can't stand her, and she'll probably become suicidal when he does leave. The worst part is the kids don't have a lot of respect for him, and I think they blame him for giving in to her. If he had stood up for himself a long time ago, and refused to be a doormat ,she might have changed her behavior and everyone would have been happier. ``` ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/158 "2011-08-11T23:27:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > And people are calling ME judgmental. What the fuck do you know about my marriage (or anyone else’s)? Only what you tell us about it. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Don’t be obtuse. It’s not that extreme. I meant that we don’t get, like, a whole day together or a night away from the kids. Of course we have some time together here and there after the kids are in bed. I’m talking about significant get away time. I wasn’t being obtuse. See above. Perhaps we have a different idea of the word “significant,” that’s all. And I wasn’t being judgemental, not the way you think. It’s just that I’ve seen so many marriages self-destruct after the kids go to college: the husband and wife have spent little/no time together, outside their roles as Mommy and Daddy, and suddenly they’re staring at each other in an empty house (_cue cricket chirping noises_) and thinking, “Who the fuck IS this person?” It would be sad to see yet another marriage go down that hole, and > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I haven’t had significant one-on-one time with my wife in over a decade is how that hole gets dug. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/159 "2011-08-11T23:31:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I have no idea what you’re asking. Why does it take “skills” to get out of the house? I suspect that they are referring to general life skills that your kids will need when they leave home. Not that anything you’ve said suggests you’re not teaching them that. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236/160 "2011-08-11T23:33:28Z")
Separate posts because the above was addressed to **Dio** , and this is for **Leaffan** : > [@doreen](#): > > … The worst part is the kids don’t have a lot of respect for him… As I grew up (late high school, early college - basically, late teens) I gradually but thoroughly lost every shred of respect I ever had for my father. I still maintained affection, but respect? He lost it, by caving to my control freak of a mother and never **ever** standing up to her: not to defend himself, not to defend me. If you maintain the status quo with your wife while waiting for your kids to grow up so you can divorce her (:rolleyes: but whatever, I already addressed that) you may very well find the same thing has happened to you. Even if you never know it: my father does not know what I just wrote, because he’s incapable of understanding it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-every-damn-social-meeting-have-to-involve-the-whole-fucking-family/592236.md?page=9)