# Why does everyone blame GWB for everything? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 4, 2012, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197 "2012-07-04T09:28:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/61 "2012-07-04T21:28:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The right spent MONTHS in 2008 (and has continued to since) picking over Obama’s birth certificate, childhood, college years, career, his association with Ayers and Wright, his Senate career, his family life, and all what else. To claim there was “no vetting” is either willlfully ignorant or a knowing falsehood. No vetting of him _as a potential leader_. In any case, I was more referring to the unquestioning and adoring support from his faithful (after Hilly had been whacked on the head). I cheerfully grant, the Republicans went digging for dirt on him simply because he was the opposition. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/62 "2012-07-04T21:28:36Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > Ever been to Oregon? I live in Portland and never saw what you describe. ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/63 "2012-07-04T21:34:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I live in Portland and never saw what you describe. Well, it must never have happened, then. (CITE!!! HOW DO WE KNOW YOU LIVED IN PORTLAND???) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/64 "2012-07-04T21:38:46Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > Well, it must never have happened, then. (CITE!!! HOW DO WE KNOW YOU LIVED IN PORTLAND???) I have been to several Dopefests in this area, and other posters(and the Mods and Admins on the board) know where I come from. edited to add: Why are you shouting? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/65 "2012-07-04T22:14:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Gore didn’t want Clinton on the campaign trail with him. If you say so, of course. (Don’t want you all tripped up by facts and cites and such, I see you’re very sensitive about that!) But they did do several events together none-the-less. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Smapti View Post > The right spent MONTHS in 2008 (and has continued to since) picking over Obama’s birth certificate, childhood, college years, career, his association with Ayers and Wright, his Senate career, his family life, and all what else. To claim there was “no vetting” is either willlfully ignorant or a knowing falsehood. > > No vetting of him as a potential leader. What more is required, exactly? A chest X ray? Four years later, and willing to vote for him, you’re still hot about his ‘not being vetted for leadership’? You must have something in mind, that didn’t getting checked or addressed, to still care all this time later, what is it? ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/66 "2012-07-04T22:31:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I have been to several Dopefests in this area, and other posters(and the Mods and Admins on the board) know where I come from. > > edited to add: Why are you shouting? I wasn’t shouting; in fact, I wasn’t even speaking. I was typing. Caps=shouting is yet another internet trope, but that doesn’t equate to reality. It seems that the irony of my “shouted” question escaped you utterly. If you live in Portland and never saw something, does that mean it never happened in Portland, let alone in Oregon? With everybody here wanting FACTS to support everything said (by others, not by themselves), the FACT that you live in Portland neither supports nor denies my original contention. Thus, my demanding that you PROVE you live in Oregon was an ironic reference to board denizens shouting, “CITE! CITE! CITE!”; who, in fact, cares that you live in Portland, for the sake of argument? In point of fact, I did attend two Obama rallies in the fall of 2008, both NOT in Portland, and they did resemble rock concerts more than anything else. Though you probably won’t believe me unless I CITE someone saying, “Wow, that Obama rally was like a rock concert!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/67 "2012-07-04T22:32:34Z")
I’d say Bush the Lesser was the worst President since Carter and the worst Republican since probably Hoover but at the same time a President Kerry if elected in 2004 would still have stayed the course in Iraq (or risk a Vietnam II), did little to avert the Great Recession (Glass-Stengall was repealed in the '90s), and couldn’t have reformed FEMA meaningfully. As for Constitutional rights violations Bush was far better than Presidents generally considered great or at least good including Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson, and FDR. ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/68 "2012-07-04T22:37:34Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > What more is required, exactly? A chest X ray? > > Four years later, and willing to vote for him, you’re still hot about his ‘not being vetted for leadership’? You must have something in mind, that didn’t getting checked or addressed, to still care all this time later, what is it? No, just something more than a single term in the Senate. I didn’t say that I was _currently_ concerned about his lack of experience in 2008. So no, I’m not “still hot,” as you put it, about that. Do I still care that we hustled into office a populist, charismatic leader without any consideration of his lack of qualifications for the most important job in the country? You bet. It’s a mistake that has destroyed other societies. Certainly, Obama is now the candidate with the experience and for that reason alone, should be re-elected. Romney has business experience, but the country isn’t run like a business. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/69 "2012-07-04T22:41:42Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > I wasn’t shouting; in fact, I wasn’t even speaking. I was typing. Caps=shouting is yet another internet trope, but that doesn’t equate to reality. > > It seems that the irony of my “shouted” question escaped you utterly. If you live in Portland and never saw something, does that mean it never happened in Portland, let alone in Oregon? With everybody here wanting FACTS to support everything said (by others, not by themselves), the FACT that you live in Portland neither supports nor denies my original contention. Thus, my demanding that you PROVE you live in Oregon was an ironic reference to board denizens shouting, “CITE! CITE! CITE!”; who, in fact, cares that you live in Portland, for the sake of argument? > > In point of fact, I did attend two Obama rallies in the fall of 2008, both NOT in Portland, and they did resemble rock concerts more than anything else. Though you probably won’t believe me unless I CITE someone saying, “Wow, that Obama rally was like a rock concert!!!” You asked if he had been to Oregon; he said he lives in Portland and hadn’t observed what you saw in your “neck of the woods”. You’re the one who took the response to a very bizarre conclusion. Frankly in my neck of the woods, I didn’t see the Obama hero worship, great savior trope that you are referring too. Simply, I saw people inspired by a candidate, which was a refreshing change and something worth cheering about. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/70 "2012-07-04T22:45:22Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > Hardly unheard of. Gore didn’t want Clinton on the campaign trail with him. Yeah, but that was because he was overshadowed by Clinton, not because he was embarrassed by him. > [@China\_Guy](#): > > > [@Flyer](#): > > > > Bush had been in office only 8 months before 9/11. Clinton was in office for 8 YEARS without getting Bin Laden. If you people weren’t so blinded by your idiotic hatred, you would be blaming Clinton instead of Bush. > > according to [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden): Bin Laden was on the American Federal Bureau of Investigation’s (FBI) lists of Ten Most Wanted Fugitives and Most Wanted Terrorists for his involvement in the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings. > > So, Clinton had about 2 years and IIRC tried to bomb but missed Bin Laden in the Sudan. > > If my math is correct, then Bush had 8 years. If you want to pick nits, and quibble that the FBI top 10 terrorists lists wasn’t Bush’s list, then counting from 9-11 Bush had more than 7 years to get Bin Laden from Bush’s (in)famous “Dead or alive” broadcast. > > Yep, sure looks like partisan spin.:dubious: Also, Clinton warned Bush about bin Laden, one of Bush’s first acts was to order the hunt for bin Laden called off, and later on after 9-11 he _again_ called off the hunt until forced to restart it by Congress. Bush was running interference for Osama bin Laden; the success of 9-11 and his survival throughout the Bush Administration isn’t surprising when he had what was for all intentions a President who was his patron. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/71 "2012-07-04T22:59:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Yeah, but that was because he was overshadowed by Clinton, not because he was embarrassed by him. No. It was the Lewinsky affair. Slate article: [Why Gore (Probably) Lost](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/ballot_box/2000/11/why_gore_probably_lost.html) > [@](#): > > Instead of finding a way to embrace the accomplishments record of the Clinton administration, Gore ran away from Clinton as fast as his legs could carry him. In September and October, this became almost comical. Gore would use tortured locutions to avoid having to utter the president’s name. Perhaps Gore did need to distance himself from Clinton’s personal failings, but in doing so, he managed to distance himself from Clinton’s public successes at the same time. You won’t find any political analysis from the time to support your claim. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/72 "2012-07-04T23:07:40Z")
**greenslime1951** , I admit some bafflement. Claims of disputed veracity form the lion’s portion of your argument; you seem to think that those who disbelieve those claims should accept them for no other reason than your say-so. But you don’t have that kind of social capital around here (and arguably no one does). If you want someone to believe that Obama has been using the shadow of George W. Bush in his 2012 electoral campaign you’ll have to do better than “buh-buh-but nu-uh, I’m not going to do your work for you! I don’t see why I can’t make whatever statements I like and be believed!” If that bothers you so much, well, that’s the environment around here. You’ll have to get used to it. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/73 "2012-07-04T23:10:07Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I’d say Bush the Lesser was the worst President since Carter and the worst Republican since probably Hoover but at the same time a President Kerry if elected in 2004 would still have stayed the course in Iraq (or risk a Vietnam II), did little to avert the Great Recession (Glass-Stengall was repealed in the '90s), **and couldn’t have reformed FEMA meaningfully.** > > As for Constitutional rights violations Bush was far better than Presidents generally considered great or at least good including Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson, and FDR. He didn’t need to reform FEMA. FEMA was an example of a government agency that was doing things right. Clinton appointed James Lee Witt, someone with emergency management experience and elevated FEMA to cabinet status. > [@](#): > > By 1996, an Atlanta Journal-Constitution editorial said, “FEMA has developed a sterling reputation for delivering disaster-relief services, a far cry from its abysmal standing before James Lee Witt took its helm in 1993. How did Witt turn FEMA around so quickly? Well, he is the first director of the agency to have emergency-management experience. He stopped the staffing of the agency by political patronage. He removed layers of bureaucracy. Most important, he instilled in the agency a spirit of preparedness, of service to the customer, of willingness to listen to ideas of local and state officials to make the system work better.”[3] Bush dropped it from cabinet level and filled it with cronies. Remember Michael Brown and his background as a failed leader of an Arabian Horse Association? Google FEMA under Bush for a bunch of first hand accounts of what happened to that agency. ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/74 "2012-07-04T23:23:37Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > You asked if he had been to Oregon; he said he lives in Portland and hadn’t observed what you saw in your “neck of the woods”. You’re the one who took the response to a very bizarre conclusion. You’re right; I should have reduced it to, “So f\*\*\*ing what?” ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/75 "2012-07-04T23:28:34Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > **greenslime1951** , I admit some bafflement. Claims of disputed veracity form the lion’s portion of your argument; you seem to think that those who disbelieve those claims should accept them for no other reason than your say-so. But you don’t have that kind of social capital around here (and arguably no one does). If you want someone to believe that Obama has been using the shadow of George W. Bush in his 2012 electoral campaign you’ll have to do better than “buh-buh-but nu-uh, I’m not going to do your work for you! I don’t see why I can’t make whatever statements I like and be believed!” > > If that bothers you so much, well, that’s the environment around here. You’ll have to get used to it. I had thought that it would be obvious that Obama is using GWB as a passive meat shield to anyone who had listened to any of his recent please-reelect-me-oriented speeches, without my having to post links to videos or any nonsense like that. In any event, people will believe what they want to believe, so even if I found and posted thirty-seven such references, people would say they were taken out of context or something. In addressing an irrationality, in other words (GWB=Satan incarnate), it’s futile to offer PROOOOOOF or CITE! CITE! CITE! ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/76 "2012-07-04T23:28:52Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > You’re right; I should have reduced it to, “So f\*\*\*ing what?” But you asked the question??? If the answer was meaningless why’d you ask? Your debating style leaves much to be desired. It’s pretty devoid of genuine interest in sharing ideas. ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/77 "2012-07-04T23:30:56Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Also, Clinton warned Bush about bin Laden, one of Bush’s first acts was to order the hunt for bin Laden called off, and later on after 9-11 he _again_ called off the hunt until forced to restart it by Congress. Bush was running interference for Osama bin Laden; the success of 9-11 and his survival throughout the Bush Administration isn’t surprising when he had what was for all intentions a President who was his patron. You are seriously suggesting that GWB kept Bin Laden alive all those years, when he supposedly could easily have killed him, for political advantage? This is a perfect example of the rabid anti-Bush raving that I’ve been talking about! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/78 "2012-07-04T23:39:56Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > You are seriously suggesting that GWB kept Bin Laden alive all those years, when he supposedly could easily have killed him, for political advantage? Keeping him alive was a political advantage; alive he was a bogeyman. And Bush _said_, repeatedly, that he didn’t care about bin Laden or catching him. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/79 "2012-07-04T23:43:29Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Keeping him alive was a political advantage; alive he was a bogeyman. And Bush _said_, repeatedly, that he didn’t care about bin Laden or catching him. How can someone be a bogeyman if you say you don’t care about him? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/80 "2012-07-04T23:44:21Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Bush had been in office only 8 months before 9/11. Clinton was in office for 8 YEARS without getting Bin Laden. If you people weren’t so blinded by your idiotic hatred, you would be blaming Clinton instead of Bush. Some of us _do_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197.md?page=5)