# Why does everyone blame GWB for everything? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 4, 2012, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197 "2012-07-04T09:28:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/81 "2012-07-04T23:48:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How can someone be a bogeyman if you say you don’t care about him? First, Bush was an incompetent; many of the things he did were inconsistent and self defeating. The simple fact that he said _out loud_ that he didn’t care about getting bin Laden is an example of that; actually _saying_ that was idiotic. And second, there were plenty of people willing to build bin Laden into a bogeyman regardless of what Bush said. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/82 "2012-07-04T23:52:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > First, Bush was an incompetent; many of the things he did were inconsistent and self defeating. That’s a very convenient, just-so story that can be used to justify any statement. Here’s the logical reason, and if it doesn’t make sense it’s because Bush wasn’t logical. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/83 "2012-07-04T23:57:44Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > Caps=shouting is yet another internet trope, but that doesn’t equate to reality. > > Thus, my demanding that you PROVE you live in Oregon was an ironic reference to board denizens shouting, “CITE! CITE! CITE!”; I’m getting dizzy. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/84 "2012-07-04T23:59:47Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s a very convenient, just-so story that can be used to justify any statement. Which is something that makes it hard to tell whether or not anything Bush did was motivated by malice or just incompetence. When you are as incompetent as Bush, the two become nearly indistinguishable. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/85 "2012-07-05T00:04:14Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Which is something that makes it hard to tell whether or not anything Bush did was motivated by malice or just incompetence. When you are as incompetent as Bush, the two become nearly indistinguishable. So, you don’t really know that Bush was trying to keep OBL alive for political advantage. I didn’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/86 "2012-07-05T00:12:36Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > As for Constitutional rights violations Bush was far better than Presidents generally considered great or at least good including Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson, and FDR. Not sure the relevance of comparing to Presidents from a different era. Sheesh, are there more than a handful of voters alive from your most recent benchmark? You’d have to be 90 something to have been eligible to vote during FDR’s last term. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/87 "2012-07-05T00:18:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, you don’t really know that Bush was trying to keep OBL alive for political advantage. I didn’t think so. Nor did I claim to. I was responding to the claim that killing bin Laden would give Bush a political advantage by pointing out that not killing him _also_ provided a political advantage. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/88 "2012-07-05T00:27:11Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Nor did I claim to. I was responding to the claim that killing bin Laden would give Bush a political advantage by pointing out that not killing him _also_ provided a political advantage. Yes you did, and no you weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/89 "2012-07-05T03:52:40Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > Do I still care that we hustled into office a populist, charismatic leader without any consideration of his lack of qualifications for the most important job in the country? You bet. It’s a mistake that has destroyed other societies. Ironically, in retrospect this is exactly, word for word, what many people who initially voted for Bush, like myself, now wonder about our decision to vote for him the first time around in 2001. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/90 "2012-07-05T04:03:22Z")
The only people I ever saw/heard making the whole ‘Obama as Messiah’ claim where right wing Republicans attempting to mock him. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/91 "2012-07-05T04:16:28Z")
Ahh, Straight Dope-style debate. So informative. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/92 "2012-07-05T04:18:11Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > As for Constitutional rights violations Bush was far better than Presidents generally considered great or at least good including Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson, and FDR. You consider Andrew Jackson and Woodrow Wilson “great”?! Holy goddamn. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/93 "2012-07-05T04:27:37Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > No–thus rendering them not “backed up.” This doesn’t mean they’re false–a logical fallacy that many of the less insightful posters here seem to be susceptible to. It may not mean they’re false, but it sure as hell doesn’t mean they’re true. So just as a courtesy to the people you claim to want to engage in conversation, back up your assertions. Don’t be so fucking lazy. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/94 "2012-07-05T04:42:40Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > It actually means, “I don’t want to go to the trouble of “citing” since you, being an internet kiddie, would just shift focus and attack the citation, since the point of your demand was not that you actually wanted a citation but that you disagreed with the poster and wanted to annoy him.” > > And by the way, several of the responses here have proved just what a weak tool a “citation” really is in making or disproving a point. Information can be selectively gathered and presented. I’m amazed no one here understands that–or maybe they do, since I’m fairly sure the bleating for citations is, as I’ve explained above, merely _pro forma_. Back in the good old days of Usenet it was considered proper to lurk in a newsgroup to see how it worked before opening your yap. You are an excellent example of why this was a good policy. You are hardly the first person asked for cites. You are claiming that something is a common statement of Obama and Dems, something most of us haven’t heard. A cite giving some examples might be nice, especially from an unbiased source. If you claim the sky is pink with yellow polka dots, and we doubt it and ask for a cite, you had better be ready to go outside and take a picture. This goes no matter who you plan to vote for. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/95 "2012-07-05T05:05:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes you did, and no you weren’t. Sorry if it doesn’t fit your agenda, but you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Silophant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Silophant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silophant)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/96 "2012-07-05T05:27:35Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > You consider Andrew Jackson and Woodrow Wilson “great”?! Holy goddamn. You’ve been here eight months, and you haven’t met **Qin** yet? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/97 "2012-07-05T05:44:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Sorry if it doesn’t fit your agenda, but you’re wrong. I don’t have an agenda. I’m just reading what you wrote and who you were responding to. Care to quote the part of the post you were responding to that claimed it would have been politically advantageous to Bush to capture or kill OBL? Oh, and btw, I noticed you’re no longer defending your claim that Gore ran away from Clinton because he didn’t want to be overshadowed by him. One of us has an agenda that conflicts with reality, but it’s not me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/98 "2012-07-05T07:01:38Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Bush had been in office only 8 months before 9/11. Clinton was in office for 8 YEARS without getting Bin Laden. If you people weren’t so blinded by your idiotic hatred, you would be blaming Clinton instead of Bush. Unless you investigate the historical record, particularly the book by Richard Clark and find out that the Clinton people repeatedly insisted and demanded that the incoming Bush people pay attention to Bin Ladin as a real threat and then how the Bush people, once in charge, stood down the intense systems of defense that the Clinton people had in place for Bin Ladin. The Bush team, the same people now on the Romney team, dropped our defenses. You can debate all you want as to why they did it, but the inconvenient fact is that they did drop the defenses and gave it low priority. To not despise their inaction in doing so, is to apologize that the executive branch isn’t responsible for external dangers that they choose to ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/99 "2012-07-05T07:49:19Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > It’s amusing that you don’t understand that governing is different when your faction controls all 3 branches of government, vs. controlling only one of them. Bush had control of all 3 houses for 4 of his 8 years in office or 50%. Obama has had control of all 3 houses for 2 of his 3.5 years in office or 57% of the time. And much of George Bush’ signature pieces of legislation were passed when he lacked control of the Senate, including The Patriot Act, No Child Left Behind & the creation of the DHS. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197/100 "2012-07-05T11:15:57Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Bush had control of all 3 houses for 4 of his 8 years in office or 50%. Obama has had control of all 3 houses for 2 of his 3.5 years in office or 57% of the time. And much of George Bush’ signature pieces of legislation were passed when he lacked control of the Senate, including The Patriot Act, No Child Left Behind & the creation of the DHS. Yeah, boy, I remember those days when the Democrats could pass whatever legislation they wanted through the Senate over any objections of the GOP. I think there were about five of them, depending on what kind of mood Lieberman was in. Obama never had control of the Senate, for reasons already explained here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-blame-gwb-for-everything/627197.md?page=6)