Why does everyone blame GWB for everything?

[Grey]

Actually no. It’s that even a Conservative Canadian can find more evidence against your position than for it speaks to how weak your OP is.

[Ellen_Cherry]

@greenslime1951

You know, I would be quite happy to CITE CITE CITE if there was even the tiniest, most infinitesimal chance that even ONE person who had said, as you and others have been saying, that I am a lazy, ignorant wad of snot for not CITE CITE CITING and that the primary reason for my not doing so is that my arguments are pathetically weak and I’m an idiot anyway, would read my CITATIONS and then say, “Oh, I guess you had a valid point after all.”

Let’s cool down a bit here, please. If you are unable to debate, even informally, without being able to provide firm footing for your assertions, (that which we call “cites”) you will find yourself in this predicament more and more often.

Everyone: Let’s stop throwing around the insults. If we can’t find something firm to latch onto, this thread is slated for closure.

Ellen Cherry
IMHO Moderator

[Smapti]

So does that mean the ten, count 'em, TEN links to speeches where Obama blames the current economic malaise on Bush will NOT be forthcoming?

[Enderw24]

@greenslime1951

I do think that you’re essentially correct, in that I probably wouldn’t have been dogpiled had I posted a thread entitled, “I Like Fluffy White Bunnies.” Then again, you never know.

If you can’t tell the difference between an opinion and an assertion of fact, that tells me all I need to know about whether it’s worthwhile to debate you on anything.

[John_Mace]

@greenslime1951

I think the tipping point was that I challenged a liberal mantra (“GWB is the cause of all human woe”). Most of the people on this board consider themselves to be intelligent (true, I believe, although I don’t have a citation so my opinion on that is worthless), but also, sad to say, intelligentsia. This self-applied label compels not only an orthodoxy of thought but an obligation to attack those who challenge it.

I do think that you’re essentially correct, in that I probably wouldn’t have been dogpiled had I posted a thread entitled, “I Like Fluffy White Bunnies.” Then again, you never know.

You have had the rare ability to unite people across the political spectrum in opposition to your posts. That’s not a good thing. Or rather, that generally means you’re posting bullshit. It has nothing to do with you being new. People who have been here for years get treated the same way when they post bullshit.

[Cheesesteak]

@greenslime1951

No one here qualifies every statement they make with “it is my opinion that…”

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” D. Moynihan

Whether or not Obama blamed Bush for everything is a matter of fact, not opinion. You don’t get to have an opinion on the matter, he either did, or he didn’t. If you think he did, you have to show us where he did, show us the facts.

[elbows]

I think the tipping point was that I challenged a liberal mantra

(Psst…there is no mantra, it’s a conservative construction, a complete projection.)

And you haven’t ‘challenged’ anything. Because you have been entirely unable to back up, anything you have asserted, with anything resembling evidence. You want us to take your every word as the unquestionable truth. If we disagree with your position we are just wrong. How dare we ask you demonstrate, that such as you claim, ever happened?

Yeah, that’s a couple of boards over and down the hall. Have a great time!

Where is there room for a discussion with someone taking such a stance? What would be the point?

[Miller]

@greenslime1951

Look, I understand how all this works—jump on the newcomer. It reinforces the sense of “community” to gang up on outsiders. Every bit of flung mud makes it easier for the next person. The same dynamic occurs in a stoning: people are hesitant to throw the first one, but once that is done, it makes throwing the next stones OK. Nothing new here.

I think you’re making a fundamental mistake in assuming that you’re receiving this treatment because you are new here. I can provide plenty of cites for people who have been here for years, who are being treated the way you’re being treated now, because they’re taking the same position that you are: that you have no obligation to provide evidence for your claims. Similarly, I can provide plenty of cites for people who show up here out of the blue, and fit comfortably into the dynamic of this board, because they understand the value of a substantiated argument.

In other words, you are receiving the treatment you are receiving entirely because of your attitude and behavior, and not because of your recent join date, or the particulars of your position.

NONE of you conform to the so-called standard of backing up all YOUR assertions with cited facts. None. The hypocrisy is breathtaking–you only demand that standard of others, not yourselves, and then only when you disagree with the speaker.

This is also demonstrably false.

I’ve learned one thing, which I suppose I should have expected–you can’t talk about politics or religion without getting gang-banged. Here or elsewhere.

When you believe yourself to be a nail, everything starts to look like a hammer.

I’m going to go have some Chinese food for lunch. I like Chinese food. Though I must be lying about that because I didn’t give a citation.

This would be a good example (or, if you prefer, a “cite”) of how you fail to distinguish between opinion and fact.

[TriPolar]

What exactly is the counterpoint to the OP’s question? Is it that Bush shouldn’t be blamed for anything and all the problems Obama has to deal with are his own fault? At best the right wing blames Obama for not doing enough to solve problems that they acknowledge he inherited. They won’t even mention in their attacks on Obama.

Anyhow,** greenslime**, the typical approach is to get really mad, end up getting pitted, intentionally violate the rules, and get banned. Or calm down and get used to how these arguments go here.

[Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake]

@greenslime1951

I realize now that my suggesting that GW Bush may be criticized to an unfair extent struck directly at the viscera of those on this board who consider themselves intellectuals and therefore deem it obligatory to wrap themselves in liberal regalia (they learned this in college).

As a college professor, I think it’s fair to say that I am an intellectual. In college, I learned to be a neo-con, and (IIRC) I voted for Alan Keyes in 2000. Nowadays, I’m really liberal, and I think Obama is too conservative.

Please keep your ridiculous generalizations to yourself.

[Acsenray]

@Shalmanese

Bush never had a filibuster proof Senate during any term of office, Obama had a marginally filibuster proof senate for 2 years and a majority senate for the other 1.5 years. That Democratic senators chose to filibuster Bush less than Republican senators chose to filibuster Obama is a separate issue.

The fact that Republicans determined to filibuster every Obama proposal to further their sole priority of ensuring he was a “one-term president” is a separate issue from why Obama has not been able to implement the majority of his policy efforts?

And the fact that McConnell has stated that the Republicans will filibuster every single judicial nomination until after the election, regardless of the nominee, has nothing to do with whether Obama will be able to seat any judicial appointments?

[greenslime1951]

OK, everybody. You don’t seem to realize what the title of this board means: “In My Humble Opinion.” As in, something said here should be construed as offering an OPINION.

To require someone to “back up” an OPINION with citations is absurd. And for you all to claim that there is some requirement here to do that is likewise absurd. The hypocrisy here is that you don’t hold yourselves to the same standard–everyone here gives unsupported assertions ALL THE TIME.

Of course, what was really going on here is that I challenged a piece of political “common wisdom,” with which most people disagree (here as elsewhere), and those that disagreed, rather than trying to refute what I said (that would have been too much bother for them), did the internet kiddie trick of shouting, “LET’S SEE SOME FACTS!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad:” No one–NO ONE–honestly wanted to see any citations.

But no problem; I just won’t post anything to do with politics or religion. (Though I wonder what the response would have been to a thread titled, “Everything is G.W. Bush’s fault.”)

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

If your thread was titled “Everything is Obama’s fault” that would have been your opinion, and a discussion could be held on why you believe that.

Your thread is titled “Why does everyone blame GWB for everything”, you need to first show that everyone is doing just that, before an answer to why they do it can be discussed.

Get off the cross- plenty of varying viewpoints are discussed here. It’s not the topic, it’s you’re refusal to engage anyone except on your terms that’s the problem.

[zoid]

@greenslime1951

But no problem; I just won’t post anything to do with politics or religion. (Though I wonder what the response would have been to a thread titled, “Everything is G.W. Bush’s fault.”)

I invite you to visit this thread wherein a poster proposes a clearly anti-Republican OP and is similarly criticised for not backing up the claims made. You’ll please note that regardless of the political leaning of the original post, making specious claims is frowned upon.

[Dag_Otto]

@greenslime1951

rather than trying to refute what I said

:smack:

[Grey]

@greenslime1951

OK, everybody. You don’t seem to realize what the title of this board means: “In My Humble Opinion.” As in, something said here should be construed as offering an OPINION.

To require someone to “back up” an OPINION with citations is absurd. And for you all to claim that there is some requirement here to do that is likewise absurd. The hypocrisy here is that you don’t hold yourselves to the same standard–everyone here gives unsupported assertions ALL THE TIME.

Of course, what was really going on here is that I challenged a piece of political “common wisdom,” with which most people disagree (here as elsewhere), and those that disagreed, rather than trying to refute what I said (that would have been too much bother for them), did the internet kiddie trick of shouting, “LET’S SEE SOME FACTS!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad:” No one–NO ONE–honestly wanted to see any citations.

But no problem; I just won’t post anything to do with politics or religion. (Though I wonder what the response would have been to a thread titled, “Everything is G.W. Bush’s fault.”)

Poor wee thing. Surely it occurred to you that by posting your opinion as established fact you would be challenge. Even if you hadn’t, is it your now stated position that your personal experience is identical to others and that given the limited subset of information sources and community norms in your region your subjective experience should be established as the default experience for everyone? Is it your contention that Oregon reflects exactly the same political outlook and discussions as experienced by Texas, Rhode Island and Ohio? If not, then of course people will object to your views - you’re not particularly special.

So you’ll be challenge. Perhaps your view is incorrect, skewed by local editorial coverage and so is open to being updated. Perhaps everyone else is seeing the same thing. The clever people update their opinion on facts. Factless whinging goes in the pit.

[John_Mace]

@greenslime1951

Of course, what was really going on here is that I challenged a piece of political “common wisdom,” with which most people disagree (here as elsewhere), and those that disagreed, rather than trying to refute what I said (that would have been too much bother for them), did the internet kiddie trick of shouting, “LET’S SEE SOME FACTS!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad:” No one–NO ONE–honestly wanted to see any citations.

Is not!

[Brown_Eyed_Girl]

@greenslime1951

Also note, O Fact Worshipper, …

[bolding mine]
Is that supposed to be some sort of invective or something? What kind of a jackass holds facts in high esteem?

[Gyrate]

This whole thread is a trainwreck. I blame Bush, frankly.

[Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake]

@greenslime1951

No one–NO ONE–honestly wanted to see any citations.

I do.