# Why does everyone (critics especially) seem to hate "Independence Day" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 21, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697 "2009-07-21T01:03:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/21 "2009-07-21T03:47:02Z")
Another movie released during the summer of 1996 is The Arrival, which starred Charlie Sheen and was vaguely similar to Independence Day with the notable exception of actually being good. If you haven’t seen it, you ought to. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/22 "2009-07-21T03:58:46Z")
Why do I hate ID4? Because I’ve seen _less_ derivative things in advanced calculus class! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/23 "2009-07-21T04:01:52Z")
> [@TJVM](#): > > I don’t know if this is historically true, but I’ve always had the impression that Independence Day pioneered the strategy of making so much money on the opening weekend that you’re in the black before people realize the movie is terrible. So, fairly or not, I tend to hold that against it. Nah, that strategy has been around for a while before ID4 - I’m thinking it began with Top Gun. Speilberg called this method of selling tickets the “sell it before they smell it” strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/24 "2009-07-21T04:08:00Z")
I don’t know; I loved _Armageddon_ but hated _Independence Day_, and I can’t figure out why. I think the actors were more appealing for me in _Armageddon_. WIll Smith didn’t have much to do in the way of acting, Bill Pullman/Paxton is always forgettable (or at least I’m always confusing him with Bill Paxton/Pullman), Jeff Goldblum does not belong in action movies, Judd Hirsch is just a poor man’s Jeff Goldblum (who does not belong in action movies), and the less said about Randy Quaid in that movie the better. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/25 "2009-07-21T04:15:15Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Another movie released during the summer of 1996 is The Arrival, which starred Charlie Sheen and was vaguely similar to Independence Day with the notable exception of actually being good. If you haven’t seen it, you ought to. If by similar you mean they both have aliens in them, yes that’s true. But I’ve never been able to come up with any other similarities between the two even though people mention it all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/26 "2009-07-21T04:17:20Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Bill Pullman/Paxton is always forgettable (or at least I’m always confusing him with Bill Paxton/Pullman), How dare you, suh! I’ll have you know Bill Pullman was Lonestar in _Spaceballs_! That’s at least as cool as one-third of a Han Solo, which is still pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/27 "2009-07-21T04:19:16Z")
Sure, the plot was silly and over-the-top, but it was pure escapism and had great special effects. And Randy Quaid was fantastic in the movie! ---
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/28 "2009-07-21T04:29:01Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > It’s terminally mediocre – lots of action but a ridiculous story and characters. Critics have seen it all before, and better. If you want mindless entertainment, it works OK, but there’s not a lot to it. > > **The Day After Tomorrow** , by the way, was even stupider, but it also worked better. It worked better, but it was nowhere near as fun. I took _Independence Day_ to be a fun, brain-off, shoot-em up, blow-shit-up, alien movie. It was cheesy, it was campy, it was eye-rollingly dumb, but it was fun. I watch some of it when it replays on TV…_The Day After Tomorrow_ was barely worth watching the first time. TDAT was stupid (unsure about the -er), but it took itself more seriously–which just made it less fun, and more annoying to me. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/29 "2009-07-21T04:43:58Z")
I really admired it for the taking on the full scale of an alien invasion. They didn’t stage it up with radioed-in reports, or faux man-on-the-street shaky camcorder footage, they full-on showed massive alien ships and fighters invading the planet in some pretty damn iconic shots. Now I usually fall on the side of \*not \*showing the thing and making the audience using its imagination, but in 1996 the special effects where finally good enough that it was possible to make it look pretty damn real. In that respect, _Independence Day_ is the blockbuster opposite of _Jaws_. The less-than-stellar quality of Bruce, the mechanical shark, was a part of Spielberg’s decision not to show it for a good stretch of the film – meanwhile the audience used their imaginations, and the result was excellent. So I really kind of like _Independence Day_ as sort of Six Million Dollar Man “we have the technology” type movie. I guess for a lot of people that’s _Jurassic Park_, but the scope and conflict were missing there in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/30 "2009-07-21T06:04:38Z")
> [@Dahnlor](#): > > Besides, I think the whole complaint about connecting a laptop to an alien mothership to be overstated. Remember, Jeff Goldblum is _smarter_ than you, so of course he could figure out how to do that. Besides, for dramatic purposes I’m sure they intentionally chose not to bore us with the technicalities of getting that done - for example, I’m sure they didn’t plug in to the alien network with a regular Ethernet cable; they certainly would have needed to buy an adapter. > D Really. Are you sure you know where Bob Metcalfe was born? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/31 "2009-07-21T06:10:15Z")
There are some clever lines…I like the part where the guy goes " I’m not Jewish" and the Rabbi goes " That’s OK…nobody’s perfect." I also love the bit where the President discovers that THERE IS an Area 51! ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/32 "2009-07-21T06:15:44Z")
In the much darker _Independence Day II_, the spirit of international brotherhood and love lasts for several minutes before everyone realizes what crazy awesome weapons can be reverse engineered from the crashed ships. Humanity blasts itself back into the Stone Age. In the last scene, one more ship shows up, its commander crowing about how THIS had been their plan all along. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/33 "2009-07-21T06:24:39Z")
Will Smith is why people liked that movie. The dude is more likable than a basket of puppies. The movie was cornball nonsense, but we got to see Will Smith beat up an alien and talk shit to it’s carcass as he dragged it across the desert. No movie where he says “You did NOT just shoot that green shit at ME!” could possibly be bad. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/34 "2009-07-21T06:54:59Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > No movie where he says “You did NOT just shoot that green shit at ME!” could possibly be bad. Nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/35 "2009-07-21T08:15:36Z")
I passionately hate ID4. It just felt totally by-the-numbers, and transparently so. Crass, cynical and jingoistic is how I’d describe it overall. ---
**Author:** ![mecaenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/91b2a8/32.png) [@mecaenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mecaenas)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/36 "2009-07-21T10:54:11Z")
I didn’t like Independence Day, the plot was weak, the acting poor and the dialogue cheesy and overwrought - particularly Randy Quaid and his hammy lines (shudder). Add to that the abuse of science and basic technology principles is unforgiveable since it was the cornerstone of the entire ending. All in all just a masterbatory “Amurkia! Fark yeah!” movie. I can see why it would be a huge success domestically. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/37 "2009-07-21T11:53:19Z")
Oppresed minority soldier: “The American are planning an attack” Prince Charles clon: “Thank Gaad!!!” It was crappy but I enjoyed it. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/38 "2009-07-21T12:02:08Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > Oppresed minority soldier: “The American are planning an attack” > > Prince Charles clon: “Thank Gaad!!!” > > It was crappy but I enjoyed it. Translation for non-fans… Middle Eastern Soldier: The Americans are planning an attack. British Soldier: It’s about time. [Because we haven’t heard from them in a long time because Jeff Goldblum figured out the aliens are blocking our regular communications which the British don’t seem to know] ID4 is much more well-crafted than people want to give it credit for. But anythnig that seems slightly off is labeled as crap because it’s a big, dumb action movie. But it’s the perfect big, dumb action movie. Up there with Die Hard. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/39 "2009-07-21T12:27:19Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Jeff Goldblum does not belong in action movies, Even Jurrasic Park? Everyone likes to hate on Roland Emmerich and Michael Bay films. Mostly because they are big, loud, mindless, melodramatic spectacles that puts action and visually exciting scenes ahead of character or story…or reason. They also leave the door open for pedantic geeks to pick apart every aspect of the film. A lot of them are very entertaining though. Critically speaking, other directors like Steven Speilberg, James Cameron and either of the Scott brothers (Tony or Ridley) make much better effects driven films because they use story and character development to drive the plot. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/40 "2009-07-21T12:43:49Z")
I didn’t like the movie but I’ll give it two points. First, the initial forty-five minutes aren’t bad. Up to the point where the aliens have blown up all the major cities on the planet it was decent at building mood. After that point the film goes off the rails. Second, it wasn’t horribly shot. Certainly not like Michael Bay who never met a cut he didn’t like. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697.md?page=3)