# Why does everyone (critics especially) seem to hate "Independence Day" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 21, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697 "2009-07-21T01:03:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/41 "2009-07-21T12:44:36Z")
I enjoyed it. I don’t try to judge it as a work of serious filmmaking, just a bubble gum action flick. On that level, it was entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/42 "2009-07-21T12:55:21Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Will Smith is why people liked that movie. The dude is more likable than a basket of puppies. > > The movie was cornball nonsense, but we got to see Will Smith beat up an alien and talk shit to it’s carcass as he dragged it across the desert. No movie where he says “You did NOT just shoot that green shit at ME!” could possibly be bad. This movie is a horrible, horrible, dumb movie. It is also one of my biggest guilty pleasures. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/43 "2009-07-21T13:30:45Z")
What I don’t get is why people call it “ID4”. Eh? Independence Day 4? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/44 "2009-07-21T14:01:27Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > What I don’t get is why people call it “ID4”. Eh? Independence Day 4? > [@IMDb Trivia](#): > > The abbreviation “ID4” was invented due to undisclosed legal problems (long since resolved) with the title “Independence Day”. It’s also a pretty obvious reference to _Star Wars Episode IV_. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/45 "2009-07-21T14:04:27Z")
It’s the highest-budgeted B-movie ever made. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/46 "2009-07-21T14:17:15Z")
> [@Dahnlor](#): > > … for example, I’m sure they didn’t plug in to the alien network with a regular Ethernet cable; they certainly would have needed to buy an adapter. At Radio Shack or Best Buy? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/47 "2009-07-21T14:18:28Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > It’s also a pretty obvious reference to _Star Wars Episode IV_. It is? Putting a “4” on the end of anything would be, then. Just reads awkwardly to me. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/48 "2009-07-21T14:18:41Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > It’s also a pretty obvious reference to _Star Wars Episode IV_. Independence Day was released in 1996. No one cared about the Episode numbering in Star Wars until Episode I came out a few years later. In other word, cite? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/49 "2009-07-21T14:18:49Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > What I don’t get is why people call it “ID4”. Eh? Independence Day 4? The flick was promoted that way. It opened on July 4th - Independence Day don’cha know[sup]1[/sup]. “ID4” fits nicely on a marquee or poster or in a commercial. Of course, much of the target audience started asking where they could rent the first three Independence Day movies, and when ID5 was coming out. :smack: [sup]1[/sup] Note to non-US readers: if you don’t get the reference - get oudda here ya furriner! But leave your admission and popcorn money. :rolleyes: x 1776 ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/50 "2009-07-21T14:23:41Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Recognize that _Independence Day_ is an etude in filmmaking: the assignment was to construct a film using absolutely nothing but homages to other films of the same genre. > > From that standpoint, it becomes a masterpiece. This! It is a ‘fun’ movie. The cast does a terrific job with a terrible script. This film shows off Will Smith’s charisma better than any other. He MAKES you have fun. He’s having fun, and he brings you along. This is one of those ‘guilty pleasure’ movies. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/51 "2009-07-21T14:35:27Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Independence Day was released in 1996. No one cared about the Episode numbering in Star Wars until Episode I came out a few years later. > > In other word, cite? Um, my peers started talking about the episode number thing when _Empire_ came out and suddenly we were on “Episode V” of something we’d all only seen one part of before. (Not all of us got to see the re-release of _Star Wars_ that had the “Episode IV” tag.) YMMV, of course. And no, I don’t have a cite any more than I have a cite for the obviousness of the city-killer spaceships being an allusion to _Childhood’s End_ or the obviousness of the computer virus being an allusion to _War of the Worlds_. “Obvious” is always in the eye of the beholder. > [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > The flick was promoted that way. It opened on July 4th - Independence Day don’cha know[sup]1[/sup]. “ID4” fits nicely on a marquee or poster or in a commercial. Actually, it was released on July 2. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/52 "2009-07-21T15:31:31Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I don’t know; I loved _Armageddon_ … Bill Pullman/Paxton is always forgettable (or at least I’m always confusing him with Bill Paxton/Pullman)… Don’t forget Will Patton–who was in Armageddon. > [@Zebra](#): > > This film shows off Will Smith’s charisma better than any other. I disagree. I, Robot holds that honor, if only because he has more screen time. And one of my favorite Will Smith lines of all times: Spooner: I don’t know what “blithely” means but I’m going to get some coffee. You want some coffee? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/53 "2009-07-21T15:36:37Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > And one of my favorite Will Smith lines of all times: > > Spooner: I don’t know what “blithely” means but I’m going to get some coffee. You want some coffee? All the more so because it’s a callback to Men in Black. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/54 "2009-07-21T15:51:04Z")
> [@Ruffian](#): > > It worked better, but it was nowhere near as fun. I took _Independence Day_ to be a fun, brain-off, shoot-em up, blow-shit-up, alien movie. It was cheesy, it was campy, it was eye-rollingly dumb, but it was fun. Action movies don’t have to be dumb, and they’re better when they’re not. (more to follow) > [@Mosier](#): > > …we got to see Will Smith beat up an alien and talk shit to it’s carcass as he dragged it across the desert. No movie where he says “You did NOT just shoot that green shit at ME!” could possibly be bad. Yes; if only they’d made the movie sixty years earlier, they could have gotten Stepin Fetchit for the role. That’s an exaggeration, but Smith’s goggle-eyed amazement schtick never really struck me as all that funny or interesting. I much prefer Tommy Lee Jones in _Men in Black_; utterly deadpan no matter what bizarre things are happening. > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > ID4 is much more well-crafted than people want to give it credit for. But anythnig that seems slightly off is labeled as crap because it’s a big, dumb action movie. But it’s the perfect big, dumb action movie. Up there with Die Hard. _Die Hard_ is a big, _smart_ action movie. Accept the premise and the rest of it comes naturally; the bad guys have a plan, they’ve trained and practiced, and the surprises seem obvious once they’ve happened. _Independence Day_ is just a series of cliches; ominous warnings are ignored, good guys narrowly escape destruction and hole up at the secret base, geeky scientist, rescue the family dog, unlikely lone hero comes through and wins his son’s respect, and one last, desperate chance to save the world. I hated it. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/55 "2009-07-21T17:54:17Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > All the more so because it’s a callback to Men in Black. Really? Please explain! ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/56 "2009-07-21T18:03:01Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Really? Please explain! In Men in Black, when Tommy Lee Jones first briefs Smith on the MiB program as they’re walking down the hallway and Smith rejects the job offer in disbelief, Jones sighs and says, “Okay. I’m gonna get some coffee, you want some coffee?” “No, thank you, I’m fine.” That’s when Jones steps into the kitchen and we first see the Worms. It’s not an explicit connection, but Smith says the line in I, Robot _exactly_ the same way Jones says it in MiB. Yeah, I watch this stuff too much. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/57 "2009-07-21T18:16:31Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > I’d take I, Robot or Men In Black over Independence Day anytime. Which isn’t to say I hate it. Not at all. How could you hate a movie with Will Smith and a bunch of big yicky aliens? And Brent Spiner doing an annoying uber-nerd who meets a fate we sometimes wish upon the annoying uber-nerds in our life? I loved his pants and tie, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/58 "2009-07-21T18:31:56Z")
I’ve watched it on the telly seven or eight times, so I must not hate it too much. It’s got some trite parts, but it isn’t aspiring to insight or significance, so the trite is all right. Same thing for the acting. The bad flows by painlessly and there are some fun parts (particularly the Goldblum and Smith interaction.) I’d say that the idea that the movie is ripping off _War of the Worlds_ because they both use “viruses” is silly. The viruses aren’t comparable, and the computer disruption wasn’t nearly as significant in _Independence Day_ as the microbes were in _WOTW_. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/59 "2009-07-21T18:36:53Z")
It’s actually one of the few movies where I like Goldblum a lot. His particular speech habits work really well with the script and create a sort of cadence that’s fun to listen to. And Judd Hirsch is great. “All you need is love. John Lennon. Smart man. Shot in the back. Very sad.” I will say, though, that as much as I allow myself to get emotionally worked up by Pullman’s speech before the climactic fight, I can’t shut my brain off quite enough to ignore the resounding dissonance of trying to link declaring independence from Britain to fighting off a freaking alien invasion. If the aliens had established themselves as tyrannical overlords instead of destructive scourges, it would make far more sense. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/60 "2009-07-21T18:37:57Z")
Is \*Independence Day \*the one where the POTUS himself gets into a fighter plane to go help beat the aliens? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697.md?page=4)