# Why does everyone (critics especially) seem to hate "Independence Day" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 21, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697 "2009-07-21T01:03:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/61 "2009-07-21T18:38:43Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Is \*Independence Day \*the one where the POTUS himself gets into a fighter plane to go help beat the aliens? Yup. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/62 "2009-07-21T18:46:26Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Is \*Independence Day \*the one where the POTUS himself gets into a fighter plane to go help beat the aliens? If you think that’s goofy, leave it to the Japanese to take a goofy idea [several hundred steps further](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Wolf_Chaos). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/63 "2009-07-21T18:47:50Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > If you think that’s goofy, leave it to the Japanese to take a goofy idea [several hundred steps further](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Wolf_Chaos). 😃 Now THAT would be a cool movie! ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/64 "2009-07-21T18:56:46Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > The whole “hacking into an alien ships computer system” is what gets mentioned the most when people complain about the movie. Besides that i think its a perfect action movie. That may be the least egregious excursion from reality in the film. For instance, why do the aliens need to piggyback on telecommunications satellites to sequence their attacks? One would think they would be perfectly capable of deploying their own communications system, nor does it appear that they have to have millisecond sequencing time for their attacks. It’s a really dumb action movie. A perfect action movie is _The General_, _Raiders of the Lost Ark_, or _Die Hard_; films that move so fast or are sufficiently tightly plotted that you don’t question the basic premises while watching the film. > [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Recognize that _Independence Day_ is an etude in filmmaking: the assignment was to construct a film using absolutely nothing but homages to other films of the same genre. > > From that standpoint, it becomes a masterpiece. Except homage implies respect. _Independence Day_ just ripped off previous films. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/65 "2009-07-21T18:58:02Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > If you think that’s goofy, leave it to the Japanese to take a goofy idea [several hundred steps further](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Wolf_Chaos). 😃 It is one of my great regrets that this game was never brought to America. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/66 "2009-07-21T19:52:40Z")
Add me to the hate list. Mostly it’s the chest thumping jingoism - Don’t mess with Am-er-i-ca (with a slight nod to the rest of the world!) If they had cut out the patriotic speeches and all reference to Randy Quaid, and the whole President flying a fighter thing, if might have been a decent movie. I have to wonder why there are so many characters. It’s like all of Hollywood had the week off with nothing to do and somebody said “let’s do a show.” ---
**Author:** ![Meltdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Meltdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meltdown)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/67 "2009-07-21T19:53:15Z")
It’s a guilty pleasure for me as well – parts of it anyway. I can’t sit through the whole thing anymore. I like to try catching it around the time the alien ships come out of the clouds to reveal themselves, and then I stop watching after the inital attack (after the big cities get blowed up real good), and then I like to start again around the time Jeff Goldblum develops his virus theory, and then stay to the end. The one part that I absolutely cannot bear any longer is the sequence in Area 51 – the sequence of “let’s download some exposition so we can move this sucker along already.” First, the alien that has been soaking in saline solution for 50 years wakes up, kills everybody in the operating room, and then President Pullman tries to negotiate a peace with it (actually using the phrases “I’m sure we can learn a lot from each other” and “can their be a peace between us?”) This offer is rejected by the newly-awakened alien, who then (I think I have this right) _psychically transmits_ the ultimate plans and goal of the invasion to the president. President Pullman then relates the plans to his staff (and to us). That was helpful! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/68 "2009-07-21T19:58:22Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > First, the alien that has been soaking in saline solution for 50 years wakes up… Haven’t seen the movie in years, but I’m pretty sure that alien was the one Will Smith dragged in after he got it to crash it’s fighter. It wasn’t one they found in the wrecked scout ship from the fifties. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/69 "2009-07-21T20:01:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Haven’t seen the movie in years, but I’m pretty sure that alien was the one Will Smith dragged in after he got it to crash it’s fighter. It wasn’t one they found in the wrecked scout ship from the fifties. Yep. Brent Spiner was thrilled that Smith brought in a live one. All the ones held in tubes died after their crash. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/70 "2009-07-21T20:01:52Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > The one part that I absolutely cannot bear any longer is the sequence in Area 51 – the sequence of “let’s download some exposition so we can move this sucker along already.” First, the alien that has been soaking in saline solution for 50 years wakes up, kills everybody in the operating room, and then President Pullman tries to negotiate a peace with it (actually using the phrases “I’m sure we can learn a lot from each other” and “can their be a peace between us?”) This offer is rejected by the newly-awakened alien, who then (I think I have this right) _psychically transmits_ the ultimate plans and goal of the invasion to the president. President Pullman then relates the plans to his staff (and to us). That was helpful! You’ve got that quite a bit backwards. The alien they perform the autopsy on is the one Will Smith captured in the desert a few hours earlier. The ones sitting in saline solution for 50 years are quite dead. And the alien does not psychically transmit “the plans” to Pullman, he attacks the President’s mind with his mind (as the aliens are all psychic) and in this mindmeld the President sees the alien’s thoughts, which include how they’ve destroyed previous civilizations. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/71 "2009-07-21T20:02:03Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > First, the alien that has been soaking in saline solution for 50 years wakes up, kills everybody in the operating room, No, you’re remembering that incorrectly. The saline alien is dead, the operating room alien is “fresh kill” Will Smith’s character’s hauls to them. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > _Die Hard_ is a big, _smart_ action movie. Accept the premise and the rest of it comes naturally; the bad guys have a plan, they’ve trained and practiced, and the surprises seem obvious once they’ve happened. Yes. _Die Hard_ is the greatest action movie ever made – hands down. ---
**Author:** ![rainy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@rainy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/72 "2009-07-21T20:03:59Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > First, the alien that has been soaking in saline solution for 50 years wakes up, kills everybody in the operating room No, you’ve got that wrong. The alien that Will Smith drug across the desert to Area 51 wakes up and kills everybody in the room. The SHIP they had there for 50 years starts functioning after alll that time (no saline soak) because the motherships are in orbit. Geez. Seen it a million times. Love it, it’s fun. Relax, eat some popcorn. -rainy ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/73 "2009-07-21T20:12:38Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > There are some clever lines…I like the part where the guy goes " I’m not Jewish" and the Rabbi goes " That’s OK…nobody’s perfect." That line was even more clever when Henny Youngman delivered it in 1930! ---
**Author:** ![Meltdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Meltdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meltdown)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/74 "2009-07-21T20:13:31Z")
Apparently, I had that wrong. Sorry! ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/75 "2009-07-21T20:16:10Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > Apparently, I had that wrong. Sorry! There’s more than enough to make fun of in the movie, so everyone’s quick to point out the one logical consistency. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/76 "2009-07-21T20:36:29Z")
The thing I love about them flying the Roswell wreck up to the mother ship is that I love imagining the attack force dispatcher alien dude who’s sitting there when they fly up thinking, “Oh, man! A '47 Asskicker. I haven’t seen one of these in years! Looks like he’s restoring it. What the hell is that thing on its side? Damn, people do some stupid shit when they’re on the vanguard of the attack.” But, then, that’s not [the strangest thought](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9875401&postcount=53) I’ve ever had as regards minor characters from ID4. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/77 "2009-07-21T21:40:45Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > The thing I love about them flying the Roswell wreck up to the mother ship is that I love imagining the attack force dispatcher alien dude who’s sitting there when they fly up thinking, “Oh, man! A '47 Asskicker. I haven’t seen one of these in years! Looks like he’s restoring it. What the hell is that thing on its side? Damn, people do some stupid shit when they’re on the vanguard of the attack.” > > But, then, that’s not [the strangest thought](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9875401&postcount=53) I’ve ever had as regards minor characters from ID4. Ha, that’s awesome. ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/78 "2009-07-21T22:04:55Z")
Despite critics the movie was made for $75Million, with another $20M for ads, and grossed over $817M worldwide and another $177M in rentals. And those are the only numbers that count to the studios. The movie obviously has a lot of appeal to a wide audience. I think the critics (I’m not one of them) are people who insist on scientific integrity to the minutia and scripts with zero trite lines. Good luck finding a movie like that that’s entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/79 "2009-07-21T22:08:24Z")
My problem with Independence Day is that, even given the limitations of its genre, it is completely and utterly predictable. Only Margaret Colin’s great legs make it watchable. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697/80 "2009-07-21T22:24:11Z")
> [@nivlac](#): > > I think the critics (I’m not one of them) are people who insist on scientific integrity to the minutia and scripts with zero trite lines. Good luck finding a movie like that that’s entertaining. Yep, Roger Ebert really puts his PhD in organic chemistry to work when he reviews the latest period drama. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-critics-especially-seem-to-hate-independence-day/503697.md?page=5)