# Why does everyone hate the French? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 7, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814 "2006-06-07T22:22:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/21 "2006-06-08T01:09:20Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Here are the reasons: Not a bad summary! > [@](#): > > They tend to be rude to visitors although I can honestly say this has never happened to me and have walked around Paris for days and can’t speak a word of the language. Many others say it does though. Same here. Never had a problem. (Maybe because I speak just a little French, and everyone gladly switched to English as soon as they heard me try it out!) ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/22 "2006-06-08T01:18:35Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > That being said, in Quebec . . . Dude! What the hell! What did we ever do to you? Summer festivals, delicious artery-clogging foods, hot French-Canadian girls in miniskirts, liberal attitudes towards sex, pot, booze, and the speed limit… You must have been here in February. We’re _all_ bitchy in February. The women _want_ to be outside in miniskirts, drunk and making out in the streets, but it’s just too damn cold. Hmm, looks like a nice day tomorrow. Think I’ll wear a miniskirt and sit on a terrace with a drink. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/23 "2006-06-08T01:19:38Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > I have a problem with this. I know where your statement is coming from but it seems to be an issue that is taken totally out of context. > > In WWI, one of every four French males were either injured or killed. Using some rough arithmetic, a similar casualy rate among Americans during WWII, that would translate to about 12 million casualties. In fact, the US casualties were about 300,000. > > It would seem to me that the carnage of WWI would affect the will of the people to sacrifice more lives within 1 generation. Can you really blame the French for not wanting to throw more of a resistance at the Germans who had the most mechanized and sophisticated military in Europe and were intent on overrunning them? > > It is possible for a populace to lose their appetite for war. Most of the French as the punchline for jokes didn’t come about because of their not winning any wars or battles. The jokes came because the French were constantly being bailed out by the US, and then the French just get back into the same messes, all the while castigating the US for some thing or the other. Say what you want about losses and death and war, but that sort of boorish behavior demands the ol’ horselaugh. (I’m not exactly sure what 'the horselaugh" is- I heard Audie Murphy use that term on one of his movies.) hh ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/24 "2006-06-08T01:24:11Z")
> [@Antigen](#): > > Dude! What the hell! What did we ever do to you? Summer festivals, delicious artery-clogging foods, hot French-Canadian girls in miniskirts, liberal attitudes towards sex, pot, booze, and the speed limit… > > You must have been here in February. We’re _all_ bitchy in February. The women _want_ to be outside in miniskirts, drunk and making out in the streets, but it’s just too damn cold. > > Hmm, looks like a nice day tomorrow. Think I’ll wear a miniskirt and sit on a terrace with a drink. 😉 I’ll be there! I’m always ready to provide another chance, especially if it involves women in miniskirts who want to make out! ---
**Author:** ![JustAnotherGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58f4c7/32.png) [@JustAnotherGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustAnotherGeek)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/25 "2006-06-08T01:37:06Z")
Just wanted to pop in and mention: I made my french housemate read this thread. Mostly he was just laughing. He said, “Many of this is true. But not all.” I couldn’t get him to elaborate. ---
**Author:** ![JustAnotherGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58f4c7/32.png) [@JustAnotherGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustAnotherGeek)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/26 "2006-06-08T01:38:44Z")
Oh, and **Antigen**? Just _where_ in Montreal are you? ::sits by with pen and paper and a car full of gas:: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/27 "2006-06-08T01:43:06Z")
In all of the visits I’ve made to France, both as a tourist and on business, I’ve never been treated badly. French waiters can be snotty, but they’re even snotty to the French, so it doesn’t count. I’ve spent as long as a month at a time in Paris, so it’s not a matter of just interacting with hotel personnel. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/28 "2006-06-08T01:50:56Z")
> [@JustAnotherGeek](#): > > Oh, and **Antigen**? Just _where_ in Montreal are you? > > ::sits by with pen and paper and a car full of gas:: > > 😃 Sorry, folks, I’m already taken… by an American who most definitely appreciates everything French about me. 😛 See what happens when you sit around making fun of the French? There’s still hope, though - come redeem yourselves during the Jazz festival. Plenty of jolies jeunes femmes (pretty young ladies) up here for you to put the moves on. ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/29 "2006-06-08T02:00:51Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > Can you really blame the French for not wanting to throw more of a resistance at the Germans who had the most mechanized and sophisticated military in Europe and were intent on overrunning them? Yes, because I think the French arguably had the “most mechanized and sophisticated military in Europe” not the Germans, who in reality just out-thought and out-fought the Frenchies to take away their _homeland_. Throw in Indochina, Algeria, etc. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/30 "2006-06-08T02:33:28Z")
Would you believe France and England going at it after the Treaty of Paris in a prequel to the Napoleonic Wars? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/31 "2006-06-08T02:40:04Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > So, I’ll go back to my original statement that sometimes a populace loses it’s appetite for war. But isn’t that what happened to Germany and Russia? Speaking of losses, the Russians had horrendous losses in the millions. The second wave of infantry had no weapons; they were instructed to pick up weapons from their fallen comrades, which must not have been conducive to martial valor. My point being that the German army and navy mutinied and the Russians had a revolution. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/32 "2006-06-08T02:53:05Z")
> [@Antigen](#): > > Dude! What the hell! What did we ever do to you? Summer festivals, delicious artery-clogging foods, hot French-Canadian girls in miniskirts, liberal attitudes towards sex, pot, booze, and the speed limit… I’m not sure how **Spartydog** was, so I hesitated before responding, but I must admit that it baffles me why we seem to have such a bad reputation in English Canada and the US. I started a thread about it at some point, and the answers I had were unconclusive. There seems to be a hostility to Quebec that rivals the hostility to France that we’re discussing in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/33 "2006-06-08T02:54:12Z")
> [@severus](#): > > I’m not sure how **Spartydog** was, so I hesitated before responding, but I must admit that it baffles me why we seem to have such a bad reputation in English Canada and the US. They’re just jealous. Trust me. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/34 "2006-06-08T03:11:05Z")
Let me say outright what I think some people are merely intimating. Much of the ridicule and contempt directed toward France and the French is based on xenophobia, ignorance and provincialism and is pandered to by way to many political opportunists. The classic rap on the French is their poor showing in 1940 when Germany, after securing its Eastern flank by overrunning Poland and cutting a deal with The Soviet Union, was able to turn its full military might on France supported by a not all that impressive British force. Innovative strategy and tactics made the difference in 1940. The same tactics and strategics nearly took the Soviets out of the war in the first six months. It took from 1941 until 1945 for the combined military and industrial might of the US and the British Commonwealth and the Soviet Union to defeat Germany. The French failure in 1940 was not the consequence of some inherent incapacity on the part of the French nation. They never had a chance. The inescapable fact is that we have inherited England’s fear and unease of France. Unlike late Medieval, and early modern and Georgian England we have no reason to fear France as an imperial rival. We resent its status as the cradle of modern Western culture and art. Just look at Post-Renaissance visual arts as a fair example. We resent Frances tendency to blaze its own trail in matters of international politics and most of all we hate that (unlike the present British government and its immediate predecessors) France has refused to be America’s bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/35 "2006-06-08T03:45:24Z")
I think that Americans, as a whole, are proud to be citizens of the world’s most powerful country, of what is now the only superpower. And many Americans are convinced that their country does good in the world, and that the other countries should follow their way. And they are wary of some second-rate country doing what it wants. France, despite not being a superpower anymore, still wants to be an important force in international politics, and its citizens, as a rule, support that. This, what **Spavined Gelding** has called “refus[ing] to be America’s bitch”, is probably one of the reasons why Americans tend to dislike the French, but it’s probably not the only one: after all, Americans don’t seem to hate Venezuelians, even though if there is a country whose government opposes the US as a matter of principle, that has to be it. But Venezuela is a third-world Latin American country that isn’t quite a stable democracy yet, while France is unquestionably a Western liberal democracy where the citizens ultimately decide the foreign policy, so that might explain why Americans hold the French more “responsible” for opposing them. This said, there appears to be a large number of Americans who dislike the French but _don’t even know_ that it’s a liberal democracy: even on this board, there have been many times where people thought that in France, suspects were still presumed guilty until proven innocent. So I guess the answer is that, as **Spavined Gelding** suggested, America inherited the English dislike of France and all the other reasons we can find (cheese-eating surrender monkeys, overblown sense of importance in the world, stereotypical uncleanliness, etc.) are just rationalisations to explain this feeling. > [@Antigen](#): > > They’re just jealous. Trust me. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/36 "2006-06-08T05:15:35Z")
For a book-length answer, see [_Our Oldest Enemy: A History of America’s Disastrous Relationship with France_](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0385512198) (2004), by John J. Miller and Mark Molesky. That having been said, I too have been to France twice, and was never treated rudely. When I was there last year, the hotel room in Paris was excellent and the food was excellent. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/37 "2006-06-08T05:29:22Z")
Another mostly-Francophile here. On my visits to France, I have never encountered any rudeness on their part, and on a few occasions they were helpfull way beyond what most Americans would have done. In fact the only rudeness I encountered were from other tourists (American and, especially, German). I do have a problem, though, with their government. I didn’t have this problem until I was a victim of one of their nation-wide strikes, during which everything, including transportation, shut down. For a country that relies so heavily on tourism, you’re not winning friends by stranding people who may be on their once-in-a-lifetime trip to your country. Don’t assume they’ll come back someday and spend more Yankee bucks. They won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/38 "2006-06-08T05:41:56Z")
And in terms of having power, Americans are the newbies. I would be arrogant too if I lived in a country that was a living work of art! That country is gorgeous! And Paris is arguably the most beautiful city in the world. When I was there I found that if I was friendly and courteous, so were the French. They even seemed to be a bit nicer to older people there. ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/39 "2006-06-08T10:02:09Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > In all of the visits I’ve made to France, both as a tourist and on business, I’ve never been treated badly. French waiters can be snotty, but they’re even snotty to the French, so it doesn’t count. I’ve spent as long as a month at a time in Paris, so it’s not a matter of just interacting with hotel personnel. Yes any rudeness is centered in Paris (which is probably common place in big cities. I encountered lots of rudeness in London and New York too). Paris has a reputation for rudeness among the rest of France too. In my experience in Paris, they expect you to know the system. So when you are fumbling for the phrase book, trying to work out when and how to pay the waiter, and is tipping included in the bill…and generally holding up the queue. then they can be a bit short. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814/40 "2006-06-08T13:25:59Z")
Ignorance, and people always remember the asshole or bigot they meet when traveling. They’ll tell every friend about the asshole they met in the other location. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-hate-the-french/359814.md?page=3)