# Why does everyone keep bashing the French? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 30, 2004, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286 "2004-03-30T11:36:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/41 "2004-03-31T05:50:28Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > What happened in 1869? Franco-Prussian War, I would presume (actually 70-71). The French were defeated in an extremely humiliating fashion more than once - Metz is the most famous, I think. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/42 "2004-03-31T05:54:08Z")
tongue-in-cheek history of French warfare [http://www.ixtreme.com/misc/frenchwarhistory.asp?title=french%20war%20history](http://www.ixtreme.com/misc/frenchwarhistory.asp?title=french%20war%20history) ---
**Author:** ![epepke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de0a6/32.png) [@epepke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epepke)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/43 "2004-03-31T06:20:47Z")
French-bashing goes back a lot longer than the Iraq war. As for cultural reasons, I think it’s because the US and France are so alike. Both have the combination of pretentiousness and vulgarity. As for genuine gripes, I can think of three: 1. France has even less of an ethical sense when it comes to selling people weapons than does the US. 2. For fifty years, France played the US and USSR against each other, and 3. Vietnam, which France set up but for which the US gets all the blame. BTW, I’ve been to France several times, and I’ve always found the people delightful. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/44 "2004-03-31T06:52:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Knock off the insults in IMHO, **John Corrado** , and knock off that funny furriner speech, everyone. Excuse the intrusion but…could this be the first time that an SDMB moderator got warned by another moderator?? ---
**Author:** ![Tir\_Tinuviel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@Tir\_Tinuviel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tir_Tinuviel)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/45 "2004-03-31T12:55:47Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > Bzzzt. Wrong. > > The British have never been at war with the French. You are thinking of the English-French War (14th Century), a war during which the Scots were allied with the French. :rolleyes: I only used “Brit” to indicate that I’m English despite living in Ireland, I would have thought it was obvious from my post that I wasn’t talking literally. Actually, the “English-French Wars” lasted from 1194 to 1337, it was the following “Hundred Years War” when France allied with Scotland. Correct date, wrong name. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tir\_Tinuviel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@Tir\_Tinuviel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tir_Tinuviel)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/46 "2004-03-31T13:16:10Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > Bzzzt. Wrong. > > The British have never been at war with the French. Actually, yes we have - Napoleonic Wars ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/47 "2004-03-31T13:17:32Z")
> [@Tir Tinuviel](#): > > Actually, yes we have - Napoleonic Wars And Eurovision! ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/48 "2004-03-31T14:13:16Z")
The British, rather than the English, took over from being at war with the French since the Act of Union between England and Scotland in, oh, 1707. Just count every war with them since then - no need for more specific examples. 🙂 As an aside/hijack - I was always amused by my paternal grandfather (who was born around 1885 I think) who used to come out with things like, “Nothing wrong with the Germans! We fought on the wrong side in the first one - it was those damn froggies we should have been fighting!” (requires “old buffer” English accent). ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/49 "2004-03-31T17:03:26Z")
Because the French have the stones to think they’re better than everyone, when everyone knows that the USA IS NUMBER 1!!!11!!! ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/50 "2004-03-31T17:13:18Z")
> [@GMRyujin](#): > > everyone knows that the USA IS NUMBER 1!!!11!!! (Puts in reading glasses) Is that No.1, or No.11 ?? Oh lets compromise and say that the USA is in the top dozen shall we… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/51 "2004-04-01T01:13:34Z")
I think it’s that Americans view the French a lot like a lot of countries view Americans…as rude, arrogant, acting like their language and culture is better than other peoples’, monolingual, etc. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/52 "2004-04-01T07:39:36Z")
I don’t think that at all about Americans, **Captain Amazing** … ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/53 "2004-04-02T00:26:03Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > I think of France and America sort of like brothers. Early in the Republic, of course, French adored Americans and vice versa. Thomas Jefferson was there for quite some time. Ben Franklen was almost a god there. France was a huge factor in the American Revolution. And of course, France had a revolution of its own. And it gave us a statue commemorating liberty. Even our flag colors were the same (if not the same order). > > And there was a time as recently as the late 50s and early 60s when Americans idolized everything French. French fashion, French academia, French theater, you name it — Americans emulated it and held it up as the standard. Even the French existentialists, Sartre and Camus, had a prodound influence on American thought. One of the things Americans loved about Jacqueline Kennedy was her Frenchish glamor and pinache. > > I think the disjunction came about as France moved toward socialism. That was one thing that America just couldn’t stomach. The two brothers grew up and went their separate ways. They still love each other deep down, but the public can see their rift. Well stated. The French swung into the socialist camp and it’s been a rocky friendship every since. Also, everything culturally American has been flung across the planet like so many discarded McDonalds hamburger wrappers. The French are very touchy about losing their identity. They have a language police and most recently tried to stop Islamic head gear in schools. Some of it may be jealousy because deep down, they see what has happened with socialism. It has all the white elephant characteristics of the maginot line. They also probably have aircraft carrier envy (for those familiar with their most recent investment). ---
**Author:** ![galen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecc23a/32.png) [@galen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/54 "2004-04-02T05:22:58Z")
Civilization owes much to France. As Jefferson famously said, “Every man has two countries; his own and France”. The Great French Revolution of 1789 ushered in our modern republican era. It was the beginning of the end of the empires of Europe, which climaxed in the destruction of the Russian, Hapsburg, and Ottoman empires in the Great War, in which, as others have observed, Republican France played a decisive role. French bashing has always been favored by Tory reactionaries going back to Edmund Burke and company up to the neoconservatives controlling the present US administration. I wonder if they are still serving “freedom fries” in some backward areas of the US. What about the Capitol dining room where the most enlightened of the 21st Century dine. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/55 "2004-04-02T05:46:59Z")
> [@gum](#): > > I don’t think that at all about Americans, **Captain Amazing** … I’m not talking about you personally. But the “ugly American” stereotype is out there. ---
**Author:** ![EvilGhandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@EvilGhandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilGhandi)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/56 "2004-04-02T06:05:52Z")
What I don’t understand is why everyone sees the spread of American culture as something sinester and evil. For heavens sake, until just recently the world ate it up. T shirts, jeans, fast food. That was what the young people world over wanted and we were more than happy to export it. Come to your senses people, America isnt the only country that does it. I take it everone here is familiar with Pokeman? ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/57 "2004-04-02T08:38:10Z")
> [@EvilGhandi](#): > > I take it everone here is familiar with Pokeman? Sure. I’m also familiar with a group of congressmen holding a photo op where they smashed a Japanese stereo with a sledgehammer. I’m also familiar with many localities offering sledgehammer swings at a Japanese car for a dollar. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/58 "2004-04-02T13:26:21Z")
They have their own culture, and the culinary tradition is the best in the world. I can see why the French get mad about the hegemony of American “culture”…let’s face it, the USA (by and large) is a mass-market culture…everything (from movies to food) is predicated upon selling huge volumes at low prices…the “Wal-Mart” way. This means that we get mediocre food (ala McDonald’s), mediocre movies (like the Friday the 13th series), and mediocre TV (think “FOX”. I think the French should be commended for their stand against crappy mass-market stuff-I much prefer to have a nice meal at a neigborhood restaurant than eat some crap at McDonalds 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/59 "2004-04-02T13:40:29Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I think the French should be commended for their stand against crappy mass-market stuff-I much prefer to have a nice meal at a neigborhood restaurant than eat some crap at McDonalds 🆒 What’s wrong with a nice Royalle With Cheese? Or did you decide to go to Burger King instead? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286/60 "2004-04-02T15:14:45Z")
I dated a French woman once, and I always cracked up when she would be giving me directions somewhere and tell me to turn left at “the King Burger”. > [@Snooooopy](#): > > What’s wrong with a nice Royalle With Cheese? Or did you decide to go to Burger King instead? > > 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-keep-bashing-the-french/237286.md?page=4)