# Why does everyone love Lincoln and Kennedy, but no-one cares about Garfield and McKinley? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 14, 2013, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843 "2013-09-14T13:22:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/21 "2013-09-14T18:50:52Z")
McKinley is definitely one of my favorite presidents and I too often wonder why he isn’t more remembered. But Teddy did overshadow him a lot so I think that answers it pretty adequately. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/22 "2013-09-14T19:52:34Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > McKinley is definitely one of my favorite presidents and I too often wonder why he isn’t more remembered. But Teddy did overshadow him a lot so I think that answers it pretty adequately. Ohio is pretty proud of him. Every year since 1974 the congressional delegation has blocked any attempt by Alaska’s delegation to officially change the name of Mt. McKinley to the Native name Denali, although the state has officially done so. Even the national park is called Denali and nobody up there calls it McKinley. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/23 "2013-09-14T19:58:31Z")
Mountaineers call it Denali too. Soory. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/24 "2013-09-14T20:03:00Z")
[QUOTE=DendariiDame] Garfield could write Latin with one hand and Greek with the other, simultaneously. [/QUOTE] > [@Simplicio](#): > > That’s why he had to die. Ooof. Too soon! 😉 I think part of the reason is that nobody really _remembers_ McKinley or Garfield. I defy the average person to name even _one thing_ either of those two guys did. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/25 "2013-09-14T20:29:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > He did have the potential for a good personal scandal however. He cheated on his wife with several women. But it appears he settled down when he became President. They must have misunderstood the rumors of his great dexterity when it came to exotic tongues. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/26 "2013-09-14T20:51:22Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Mountaineers call it Denali too. Soory. I’m Alaskan, born and bred. I call it Denali and Ohio can go suck it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/27 "2013-09-14T21:22:16Z")
Garfield discovered a new proof of the Pythagorean theorem. I don’t really understand the Kennedy thing. He barely won (arguably stole the election from, of all people, Richard Nixon), so he couldn’t have been that popular, fucked up the Cuban invasion totally, yes he came out smelling like roses after the Cuban missile crisis, apparently collaborated in the assassination of the president of South Vietnam and had, at the time of his assassination, done nothing to get out of Vietnam and we can argue all day and all night whether he would have. There was certainly a lot of charisma to him, but a lot of people voted against him. Jackie was the closest we have come to a queen, but I hardly think that is enough. It seems to come down to the fact (which I will affirm) that people had great hopes for him. As for Lincoln, I don’t think any explanation is needed. He saved the union and ended slavery. Enough said? Garfield may have cheated on his wife, but Grover Cleveland won two elections (and lost in between) despite an accusation of having an illegitimate child (campaign ditty: “Ma, ma, where’s my pa?” “Gone to the White House, ha, ha, ha.”) I don’t know enough about McKinley to comment. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/28 "2013-09-14T21:31:16Z")
I think the fact that Garfield and Mckinley’s assasins stood trial and were executed helps push them into the backround. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/29 "2013-09-14T21:38:16Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I don’t really understand the Kennedy thing. He barely won (arguably stole the election from, of all people, Richard Nixon), so he couldn’t have been that popular I think the consensus is that both parties committed voter fraud in the 1960 election. That’s the reason Nixon didn’t challenge the result. He knew he could take away some of Kennedy’s fake votes but he also knew his own fake votes would be exposed and taken as well. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/30 "2013-09-14T21:52:40Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > He barely won (arguably stole the election from, of all people, Richard Nixon), so he couldn’t have been that popular. This isn’t a sound conclusion. Someone can barely win and still be popular. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/31 "2013-09-14T23:11:55Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I don’t really understand the Kennedy thing. He barely won (arguably stole the election from, of all people, Richard Nixon), He barely won, but there is no serious argument that he stole it. That canard is connected to Assassination CT enthusiasts who want to believe that he had Daley and the Mob steal Illinois. However, Kennedy would have won the electoral college even if Illinois had gone for Nixon, so the point is moot and the story silly. > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > so he couldn’t have been that popular, This point is accurate. He was wildly loved by many, but purely hated by many others. > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > fucked up the Cuban invasion totally, Nah. He screwed up by believing the stuff that the CIA told him about the plan he had inherited from Eisenhower and he made a few bad calls, but it was doomed with or without presidential involvement, (unless one believes that he should have sent in the USMC to conquer the island). > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > yes he came out smelling like roses after the Cuban missile crisis, Although recent historical analysis has not been particularly kind to him on that topic > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > apparently collaborated in the assassination of the president of South Vietnam and had, at the time of his assassination, done nothing to get out of Vietnam and we can argue all day and all night whether he would have. Mostly true. Kennedy was also a genuine war hero, not for any successful combat, but for his actions in saving his crew after his boat was sunk. He gained a lot of support, (and a lot of detractors), in his effort to force the major steel companies to back away from a steep, (at the time), price hike that he considered inflationary and a risk to falling back into Eisenhower’s 1958 Recession. While his record on Civil Rights is decidedly mixed, he tended to say the “right” things to be remembered (imperfectly) on the topic following his death. He also called for the manned moon landing and launched the Peace Corps, both activities that resonated long after he was out of office. Notably, he was telegenic and visible in ways that no previous president ever had the opportunity to be, with his pretty wife and cute kids, and he gained sympathy with the loss of his third child in pregnancy while he was in office. In one way or another, each of those actions promoted him (and his memory) in ways that Garfield and McKinley could not hope to match. I am not sure that Kennedy will always be remembered the way he is now, but over a third of the country, now, was alive during his presidency, (including the vast majority of boomers), so his memory will continue for a while. = = = I am not sure how well McKinley was remembered in the early part of the twentieth century, but he suffered from a number of negative views in the later part of the century. By the 1960s, the Spanish American War began to be viewed among more and more people as an open grab for empire–a legacy that became more “shameful” in that era. (Kipling had recognized it as imperial from the outset–White Man’s Burden–and Mark Twain was very critical of it, along with scathing commentary on the suppression of the Philipines following the war.) Similarly, in anti-imperialist times, McKinley took the blame for the theft of the Hawaiian Islands. And while few people, now, can get worked up over the McKinley/Bryan battles over the Gold Standard _vs_ the Silver Standard, (when they even remember that the fight occurred or what it meant), a certain portion of the population in the early years would have held that against him, even if he did win the election and that sort of animosity can be handed down across generations without having explicit information. = = = I would guess that Garfield’s brief tenure and lack of high profile crises or accomplishments worked against him. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/32 "2013-09-14T23:24:59Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > Ooof. Too soon! 😉 > > I think part of the reason is that nobody really _remembers_ McKinley or Garfield. I defy the average person to name even _one thing_ either of those two guys did. Well, I do remember reading a history series when I was in junior high. When McKinley was shot he is supposed to have said(referring to his wife) _“Be careful how you tell her .”_ ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/33 "2013-09-15T01:30:00Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’m Alaskan, born and bred. I call it Denali and Ohio can go suck it. 😃 I don’t care what you call you call your mountain. I’m from Ohio and I care a great deal about both Garfield and McKinley. My grandparents are buried only about a thousand feet from McKinley’s tomb, so he was a figure in my life from the beginning. And the more I learn about Garfield, the more in awe I am of him. He was brilliant and devoted to racial equality and education. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/34 "2013-09-15T01:58:13Z")
Garfield’s favorite food was squirrel soup (not lasagna). His assassin was the most famous person from my hometown of Freeport Illinois until Callista Flockhart. Industrialists and financiers threatened to fire their workers if Bryan not McKinley were elected. We heard the same Godamn thing in 2012. The Gold Standard’s argument against free silver was, basically “It’s safer that the economy is being controlled by a few responsible (and by-the-way/of course rich) people, even though that means there will be less money in it.” That hasn’t changed much either. The successful presidential assassins’ ethnic ancestry was, in chronological order, English, French, Polish and German. In fact, besides the Puerto Ricans who tried to kill Truman at Blair House and the two white women who took shots at Ford, America’s underclasses pose the least threat. ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/35 "2013-09-15T03:36:18Z")
Well there was that TV show, “Everybody Loves Lincoln” that I’m pretty sure is responsible for rekindling Abe’s popularity. I think it starred Ray Romano? ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/36 "2013-09-15T06:34:57Z")
Garfield was really sarcastic and was obsessed with lasagna. It’s no wonder nobody cares about him. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/37 "2013-09-15T06:39:45Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’m Alaskan, born and bred. I call it Denali and Ohio can go suck it. 😃 Some of us Ohioans prefer Denali too. We can rename [Campbell Hill](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell_Hill_%28Ohio%29) (the highest elevation in Ohio) McKinley Hill. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/38 "2013-09-15T10:03:03Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > The Cuban Missile Crisis was a major success, of course. Was it a major success for the US, though? It appeared to be a success for Kennedy and a failure for Krushchev, but in the end the USSR gained and the US lost. American missiles were already in Italy and Turkey before the Crisis, but Kennedy agreed to remove them to defuse the situation. He got to do it secretly, which is why it can be considered a success for him, but from the Soviet perspective, they got American missiles out of Italy and Turkey by taking some to Cuba themselves, and strengthened their ally on the Americans’ doorstep - an American invasion of Cuba wasn’t going to happen after that. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/39 "2013-09-15T12:07:41Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Was it a major success for the US, though? It appeared to be a success for Kennedy and a failure for Krushchev, but in the end the USSR gained and the US lost. American missiles were already in Italy and Turkey before the Crisis, but Kennedy agreed to remove them to defuse the situation. He got to do it secretly, which is why it can be considered a success for him, but from the Soviet perspective, they got American missiles out of Italy and Turkey by taking some to Cuba themselves, and strengthened their ally on the Americans’ doorstep - an American invasion of Cuba wasn’t going to happen after that. Those were older missiles that the military was planning on removing anyway. So the United States got the Soviets to agree to remove new missiles that were a current threat in exchange for removing old missiles that were obsolete. And they had to remove theirs in a blaze of publicity while we removed ours quietly. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843/40 "2013-09-15T13:52:02Z")
Johnny Cash wrote a song about Garfield’s assassination. I don’t believe he wrote one about either Lincoln’s or Kennedy’s. So score one for Garfield on that point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-everyone-love-lincoln-and-kennedy-but-no-one-cares-about-garfield-and-mckinley/668843.md?page=3)