# Why does firetruck accompany ambulance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 18, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272 "2016-09-18T16:36:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/21 "2016-09-19T09:58:46Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > 😕 _op. cit._ > Reference? Personal experience, nothing more. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/22 "2016-09-19T12:14:07Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > You have got to be fucking kidding with this response. The posts above address to the question in a way that that lays out in detail the reasons that additional support and capability is desired in a notional medical response, backed up by citing actual fire department webpages and professional expertise on the topic. You throw out some contempuous and borderline obloqical speculation pulled directly out of your ass. Are you under the impression that you have somehow provided any kind of value whatsoever? Actually, I agree with what Urbanredneck said. Sometimes the guys at the firehouse just want to get involved because there’s nothing interesting happening back at the station. Sure, they’re going to officially claim they’re there to lend support. I base this on having known a lot of small town volunteer fireman. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/23 "2016-09-19T12:19:14Z")
I work for the gov’t, so I know well about slavishly following rules whether or not they make sense in a particular situation. But this one struck me as especially silly, wasteful, and potentially dangerous. Let me elaborate on the scene. We live in a neighborhood of single family homes in a suburb of Chicago. The firehouse - where the truck and ambulance are stationed - is maybe 1 mile away down a major road. The hospital is maybe 1 mile away in the other direction down the same road. The neighbor is a tiny old woman - MAYBE she weighs 100#. Her house is a split level, so there were 7 steps from her bedroom to the front door. For the past year, her adult children have been staying with her. I presume they called 911, and were able to provide all of the above info - and open the door. I assume it costs some $ to send a hook and ladder out of the station. I also imagine there are some non-zero risks of MVA or personal injury to the firefighters associated with attending a call. If the truck crew had been on alert, the ambulance personnel could have called them and they could have gotten there within 2 minutes. The possible “Hey look at me” factor is supported by the fact that the truck sat there on a VERY quiet residential street, at 67 a.m., with all of its lights flashing. Man, as bright as those lights might seem in your rearview mirror, that is NOTHING compared to in the dark parked in front of your house! But they couldn’t be troubled to flip a switch and put on some less intrusive lights (assuming firetrucks can put on - say - warning flashers)? Believe me - there was no way to miss that truck and ambulance on that street, whether the lights were all going or not. As **wolfpup** suggests, I would be interested in learning how the # of calls is factored into various salaries/budgets. Thanks for all of your answers. I can imagine some sense in the responses. In this particular instance, however, sending the big truck impresses me as unnecessary and foolish. My son-in-law’s dad was a fireman for a number of years. Next time I see him, I’ll ask his experiences/opinions. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/24 "2016-09-19T12:24:40Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > 😕 “Lookie Lou?” > > ETA: obloquy goes adjectival. Impressive. That’s a bog-standard bit of US slang. Been around for years. Refers to useless spectators in an environment where they could be useful if they tried. It’s also used in the real estate industry to refer to folks who sport-shop for houses, attending open houses and sales tours with zero intent to buy. Lookie Lous are the gnats of the sales world. They buzz around in great number and get in the way but aren’t quite as objectionable as a biting or stinging insect would be. They must endured, not swatted. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/25 "2016-09-19T12:34:00Z")
To quit sending fire apparatus on the more serious medical calls, my city would have to add a third person to the ambulance crews. But they can’t take anyone from the fire engine, because it’s already running at the minimum level of staffing as well. So, they either send both trucks, or have everyone get on the ambulance and leave the engine out of service for even longer. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/26 "2016-09-19T12:36:59Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > To quit sending fire apparatus on the more serious medical calls, my city would have to add a third person to the ambulance crews. Why is the 3d person needed? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/27 "2016-09-19T12:43:11Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Why is the 3d person needed? Two people can only do so much. A person who fell down and just needs help back up does not need the same care as someone who had chest pains and is now unconscious. ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/28 "2016-09-19T12:55:08Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > **purplehearingaid** ’s link pretty much explains it. by me, the “fire truck” which gets sent out isn’t an actual pumper or ladder truck, but a “Paramedic Engine.” The people in the ambulance are usually only certified “EMT-Basic,” with a limited number of procedures they can do on-site. The Paramedic Engine is usually staffed with people certified to do more procedures on-site. in the past my dad had a string of severe insulin shock incidents while his Drs. were constantly screwing with his insulin regimen. a few necessitated a 911 call, and all times both the Paramedic Engine and an ambulance arrived. the people in the paramedic engine were equipped to insert IVs and the like, and the ambulance was there in case the on-site procedures didn’t work. The setup where I used to live in the U.S. is exactly opposite this. Firefighters are all trained as EMTs; since they usually get to the scene faster (since there are more engine companies than medic units), the firefighters are able to begin the basic treatments (pulse, BP, oxygen and CPR if needed) before the paramedics arrive. The CRTs and paramedics arrive in the medic unit and EMS supervisor unit. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/29 "2016-09-19T13:12:00Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Two people can only do so much. A person who fell down and just needs help back up does not need the same care as someone who had chest pains and is now unconscious. Sure, but then why not send 4? Or 5… Only partially kidding. Trying to figure out the logistics. I thought I usually saw stretchers wheeled with one person at the head and foot. One can drive and the other attend the person in the back. I used to have a buddy who was an EMT for the Chicago FD. I remember him saying when a call involved a truly heavy person, the one thing you could bet on was that they wouldn’t be on the ground floor! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/30 "2016-09-19T13:26:08Z")
I know it was touched on, but I want to reinforce that in some cities (like mine), the fire trucks and ambulances are housed together in one building and all driven by (more or less) the same people. Back when I first got to know the FFs, only one was both a FF and and EMT (but I think they were all first responders). That was about 10 years ago. I asked again a few days ago and I was told nearly all the FFs are now EMTs as well. Basically, it’s not that someone requested an ambulance, the fire station picked it up and decided to roll out as well, from a totally different location across town. It could be (as it is in my city), all the same people in the same building. While I’m sure a lot of the above reasons are true, to a point, taking a fire truck, may also just be because it’s another vehicle. But the fact that the fire truck has the muscle does seem like an awfully good one. It’s like when a friend calls me to take a look at an outlet. I don’t just bring a meter and a screwdriver. I bring my entire tool bag since I’ll probably need pliers and wire nuts, maybe a drywall saw or PVC cutter because they neglected to tell me it was an outdoor outlet that a racoon chewed through. That whole ‘be prepared’ thing really stuck with me. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/31 "2016-09-19T17:38:40Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > You have got to be fucking kidding with this response. The posts above address to the question in a way that that lays out in detail the reasons that additional support and capability is desired in a notional medical response, backed up by citing actual fire department webpages and professional expertise on the topic. You throw out some contempuous and borderline obloqical speculation pulled directly out of your ass. Are you under the impression that you have somehow provided any kind of value whatsoever? > > Stranger Maybe you should try reading and thinking about things before you respond? Not every response has to be from an “expert” or be a college level thesis backed up by research notes. Sometimes my ass is smarter than you think. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/32 "2016-09-19T17:43:52Z")
> [@jjakucyk](#): > > Don’t dismiss it so readily. Sending out full size pumper/ladder trucks is not standard operating procedure in most of the world. There really does seem to be a bit of a “boys and their toys” mentality with fire equipment, and as others have said, they have little else to do. Fully 2/3 of fire department calls are for medical emergencies and only single-digit percentages are for fires, according to the NFPA. > > The thing is, these calls could just as easily be answered with smaller more mobile pickup trucks or vans. Sending out full-size equipment on medical calls is actually a self-fulfilling hazard in that we need wide smooth high-speed roads to get our fire trucks to all the car crashes and other incidents caused by our wide smooth high-speed roads. Fire marshals consider accessibility for their biggest trucks to be sacrosanct, which leads to neighborhood design that’s more dangerous for everyone, motorist, cyclist, pedestrian, and resident alike. Thank YOU! Some people on this board expect every response to be from “experts” only. And you do bring up the question of maybe their could be some new type of vehicle which would hold more rescuers and equipment than a normal ambulance but need not be as big as a full firetruck. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/33 "2016-09-19T18:43:51Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Why is the 3d person needed? Some medical cases need two people working on the patient. A third is then needed to drive. ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/34 "2016-09-19T18:45:12Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Thank YOU! Some people on this board expect every response to be from “experts” only. > > And you do bring up the question of maybe their could be some new type of vehicle which would hold more rescuers and equipment than a normal ambulance but need not be as big as a full firetruck. Doesn’t even need to be new, they already have “quick response” vehicles. This one happens to be a mini pumper, but the important thing about it is all the storage cabinets for gear. Without all the pumping equipment you have extra room for a jaws of life, extension ladder, and other bulkier items. This particular model also has the advantage of a full size cab to bring along extra personnel: [Fire Trucks | Danko Emergency Equipment](http://www.danko.net/apparatus/quick-response-attack) ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/35 "2016-09-19T18:49:29Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Why is the 3d person needed? If a person needing help weight 300 lbs. or more it going to take more than 2 people to lift them. I was a health aide and a client of mine that weight about 99 lbs. feel in her apartment and her niece called 911 when men saw my client lying on the floor they started to laugh,and she got upset. The men told her they were worried about having enough people b/c they had a 300 lbs. to lift the last time. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/36 "2016-09-19T21:12:06Z")
> [@jjakucyk](#): > > Doesn’t even need to be new, they already have “quick response” vehicles. This one happens to be a mini pumper, but the important thing about it is all the storage cabinets for gear. Without all the pumping equipment you have extra room for a jaws of life, extension ladder, and other bulkier items. This particular model also has the advantage of a full size cab to bring along extra personnel: [Fire Trucks | Danko Emergency Equipment](http://www.danko.net/apparatus/quick-response-attack) Looks like an ideal vehicle. Holds 4-5 plus plenty of gear and I’d bet its better on gas. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/37 "2016-09-19T22:08:46Z")
Some of it is that patients require another pair of hands Some situations do often call for a big toolbox on wheels, namely car accidents Part of it is justifying increase FD budget via inflation of “requests for service”. Depending on situation, fire is often there faster and is able to hit and run since they are less prone to be stuck with a patient for long. By running medical assist as a matter of policy means more fire apparatus/firefighters needed. This also results in greater resources available when “the big one” happens. Fire and police are huge expenditures and many a city council has cut deeply into such budgets based on need based purely on fire/rescue needs. When SHTF then they dont have enough resources/manpower to deal with the situation. Thus by getting involved in medical aid on a regular basis, they better justify their existence to those who do not see the need for large scale idle firefighting equipment. about 10 years ago there was a major issue when 3 fires broke out in Clovis CA in a 30-40 minute span. The second fire tapped several of the nearby Fresno, CA engine companies. When the 3rd hit the nearest Fresno Fire engines took 11 minutes to arrive to an apartment fire in a downstairs apartment, 6 units of the apartment building were heavily involved when the first engine pulled in from halfway across town. A disabled person unable to escape without assistance died in that fire. These are the kind of scenarios that fire departments need to be able to handle, but at some point they can get overwhelmed and serious loss of life and property can result. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/38 "2016-09-19T23:59:31Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > And you do bring up the question of maybe their could be some new type of vehicle which would hold more rescuers and equipment than a normal ambulance but need not be as big as a full firetruck. These already exist. But they aren’t necessarily a way to save money. You still need regular fire trucks too, and now you have this other thing that needs to be bought and stored and maintained. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/39 "2016-09-20T00:53:15Z")
> [@rbroome](#): > > I don’t know about the fire dept webpages and other cites you provided, but I can report what our local fire chief told a group of homeowners about 10 years ago. He said that the reasons for sending out fire trucks to non-fire calls are two: a) there are more fire stations than ambulance stations and the trucks get to the emergency faster, and b) it brings out the trucks more frequently and keeps up the public awareness of the importance of the fire department when tax voting time rolls around. He said the latter was an increasing common reason in many areas of the country as the numbers of fires have dropped over the last several decades. > It made perfect sense to the audience who all are in favor of a strong well-funded fire department. (around here our fire departments are funded via a property tax which has to be renewed by the voters every 10 years.) Nailed it. Also, for this reason, fire trucks are equipped and staffed to perform basic ambulance duties. If you’re just taking someone on a spineboard to the ER an hour away, a ladder truck can handle that just fine. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272/40 "2016-09-20T21:40:52Z")
I always thought it was “Lookie- **LOO** s,” not “Lookie Lous.” I’m not prepared to stop thinking that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-firetruck-accompany-ambulance/766272.md?page=3)