# Why does God need to be the only God AND omnipotent to boot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866 "2011-08-24T04:28:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/21 "2011-08-24T06:16:47Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > They’re definitions, not arguments. An atheist doesn’t necessarily “believes there is no god.” > But you are defining yourself as an atheist which doesn’t jibe with “I believe in both. Or neither.” > [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > The world functions as if there was a particular type of God? I don’t see it that way, but I don’t want to get further off-topic. So now you’re a theist? Depending on my mood, I’m ambivalent, uncertain, or just all-out flipfloppity. 😃 I believe we’re still in a world that functions as though a god exists, so yes. It doesn’t MATTER if God exists because He doesn’t manifest Himself in burning bushes and such. The world operates without His input. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/22 "2011-08-24T06:18:15Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Well, from a logical standpoint, there can’t be two omnipotent beings. If either is limited in relation to the other, then that one (or both) is not omnipotent. If you’re going to posit an omnipotent being, then of necessity it must be a unique one. There’s also the question of if God can take our free will. If He can’t, he’s not all-powerful. If he can, how do we know we really have it? :o ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/23 "2011-08-24T06:18:41Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > edit: I guess you could say I believe that God exists because the world functions as though He does. :dubious: Say what? The world functions as if it _doesn’t_ have a god. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/24 "2011-08-24T06:19:52Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Depending on my mood, I’m ambivalent, uncertain, or just all-out flipfloppity. 😃 You edited your post to say you’re a theist two minutes after calling yourself an atheist. That’s one Hell of a mood swing. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/25 "2011-08-24T06:20:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > :dubious: Say what? The world functions as if it _doesn’t_ have a god. Come again? I am talking about (the majority of) people in the world. Is that better? ---
**Author:** ![Walther\_Ego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8dc957/32.png) [@Walther\_Ego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walther_Ego)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/26 "2011-08-24T06:21:55Z")
How is god defined anyway? Why is Gabriel not a god? Can any immortal creature just announce goddom? Can a god denounce goddom and say “I’m just a regular angel from now on”? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/27 "2011-08-24T06:26:18Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > You edited your post to say you’re a theist two minutes after calling yourself an atheist. That’s one Hell of a mood swing. I did not. Let’s try this again: A schizophrenic ‘hears voices’. He has hallucinations. Are there really ‘people’ talking to him? Is he ‘hearing’ what we consider to be ‘sound’? No. But he _functions_ as though this were the case, so the details aren’t really that important when you’re looking at the outcomes. And for the schizophrenic, he really is hearing voices - it doesn’t matter if the ‘sound’ is literal or hallucinatory. Likewise, God is a human invention, but as long as “God” exists in our mindset, he/she/it is in existence. Like I said: it’s sort of like math (or numbers), language, or concepts of democracy and ethics. God exists because people make it so, not because God is an actual tangible thing. If you look at science and research about the earliest man, a belief in God/afterlife/something other than our immediate needs (eg, rituals) is what makes us ‘human’. I think if you have a sense of self, you have a sense of god. It’s natural. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/28 "2011-08-24T06:27:27Z")
> [@Walther\_Ego](#): > > Can any immortal creature just announce goddom? Werd. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/29 "2011-08-24T07:11:27Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I did not. Sure you did. You even admitted it in post #21. You said: _“I just…don’t…care enough to define my ‘weak’ or ‘strong’ atheism much more than a ‘meh’.”_ You’re calling yourself an atheist. _“I guess you could say I believe that God exists because the world functions as though He does.”_ You’re calling yourself a theist. > [@](#): > > Likewise, God is a human invention, but as long as “God” exists in our mindset, he/she/it is in existence. If you say so. I guess spaceships not only didn’t take down the WTC, they did because some people believe so. If you believe gods are human inventions, you’re an atheist. Unless you believe that believing something causes something to \* actually\* exist, but if you do, I don’t see why you would have called yourself an atheist to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/30 "2011-08-24T07:16:46Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > If you’re not an atheist, you’re a theist. No one can be totally without bias on this issue. Sure they can. We call them “atheists”. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/31 "2011-08-24T07:20:22Z")
You think atheists are without bias regarding the OP’s questions? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/32 "2011-08-24T07:29:03Z")
> [@Lago\_Ys-Transform](#): > > How did this happen? What’s wrong with having a God that’s A) not omnipotent and B) more importantly, doesn’t deny the existence of everyone else’s deities? We used to have that: it’s called paganism. Christianity supplanted it. As I posted [elsewhere](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb//showthread.php?p=13879241) last June, part of Christianity’s success is grounded on its intolerance. Following Gibbon, Bertrand Russell discusses this: > [@Bertrand Russell in a History of Western Philosophy (1961](#): > > The first cause–the inflexibility and intolerance derived from the Jews–may be wholly accepted. We have seen in our own day the advantages of intolerance in propaganda. The Christians, for the most part, believed that they alone would go to heaven, and that the most awful punishments would, in the next world, fall upon the heathen. The other religions which competed for favour during the third century had not this threatening character. The worshippers of the Great Mother, for example, while they had a ceremony --the Taurobolium–which was analogous to baptism, did not teach that those who omitted it would go to hell. A religion whose beliefs crowd out other competing religions has selective advantage. ETA: I’m not trying to be a wise guy here. There are solid historical reasons for the success of the Abrahamic religions. The persistence of Hinduism is admittedly a puzzle. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/33 "2011-08-24T07:31:19Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > edit: I guess you could say I believe that God exists because the world functions as though He does. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > :dubious: Say what? The world functions as if it _doesn’t_ have a god. > [@CitizenPained](#): > > Come again? > > I am talking about (the majority of) people in the world. Is that better? You said that **you** believe that God exists because the world functions as though He does. When **Der Trihs** said it doesn’t function as if there’s a god, you said you’re talking about the majority of people in the world. You’re not making a whole lot of sense in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/34 "2011-08-24T07:42:53Z")
A monotheist doesn’t believe he chose a single God. He believes that there is a single God and he chose to acknowledge that. The analogy from the OP is flawed, because the fact that you’re at a comic book convention begs the question. Obviously anyone who’s telling you they have the only superhero comic book is wrong. You can clearly see there are others. But in theological matters, the evidence is not so objective. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/35 "2011-08-24T07:46:41Z")
[QUOTE] > [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Sure you did. You even admitted it in post #21. > > You said: > > _“I just…don’t…care enough to define my ‘weak’ or ‘strong’ atheism much more than a ‘meh’.”_ > You’re calling yourself an atheist. I see the disrupt in communication here. I was using the term atheist because I was called one via post #16. > [@](#): > > _“I guess you could say I believe that God exists because the world functions as though He does.”_ > You’re calling yourself a theist. Like I said: Either. Both. Neither. Whatever. No idea. > [@](#): > > If you say so. I guess spaceships not only didn’t take down the WTC, they did because some people believe so. I don’t think…that’s a fair comparison. I think I compared “God” to “intangible human ideas”. > [@](#): > > If you believe gods are human inventions, you’re an atheist. Unless you believe that believing something causes something to \* actually\* exist, but if you do, I don’t see why you would have called yourself an atheist to begin with. I think I covered that. I’m not much for either label. Perhaps it’s better to say, “God is a human construct”? Kind of like number concepts, love, democracy, gender, and a host of things we use to define ourselves and the natural world? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/36 "2011-08-24T07:50:16Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > You think atheists are without bias regarding the OP’s questions? I think an unbiased person can only become an atheist. Trying to pretend that a lack of bias automatically means you pick the middle ground, no matter how one-sided the balance of evidence, is just golden mean bullshit. That said, **ITR** ’s comment is a reasonable one: the question only makes sense to someone who believes the Bible is a work of fiction, so asking the question of someone who believes it’s fact isn’t going to get you a meaningful answer. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/37 "2011-08-24T13:15:29Z")
CitizenPained: > [@](#): > > There’s also the question of if God can take our free will. If He can’t, he’s not all-powerful. If he can, how do we know we really have it? Certainly he can. Note the “hardening of heart” that the Bible says G-d did to Pharaoh and Sihon. Free will is something he chooses to allow us not something he must allow us. The concept of free will is described in many Jewish philosophy and kabalah books as G-d “withdrawing himself” from the “area” where he allows human beings to exercise free will. How do we know we have free will? How would we know if we didn’t? How do we know the world isn’t all just shadows on a cave wall? The philosophical debate over whether our perceptions can be taken as reality has been going on since what, the ancient Greeks? Bottom line is, our mind (and to a lesser degree, our senses) is the best tool we have for determining what’s real and what isn’t, and in practicality, we need to act as if it is. The part of our minds that goes through a process of willful decision making is no different in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/38 "2011-08-24T15:06:55Z")
Strictly speaking, neither Christianity its related Judaic and Islamic brethren deny other beings may exist. What we do say is that they are, like man, either in the right relationship with God or the wrong one. In neither case do/should we worship them. However, while some of these beings may be vastly more powerful than humans, they are also restrained by the will of God from afecting us except in limited ways. In any case, they aren’t all that different from us in concept: limited beings subordinate to the power of God. But some of them might still be godlike in comparison to man, just as a man could be godlike in comparison to an animal or insect or bacterium. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/39 "2011-08-24T15:40:14Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I see the disrupt in communication here. I was using the term atheist because I was called one via post #16. No, you weren’t. > [@](#): > > Like I said: > > Either. Both. Neither. Whatever. No idea. That’s plain silly. > [@](#): > > I think I covered that. I’m not much for either label. Is this not being for either label thing new? Things you’ve said on this board: > [@](#): > > _I_ am an atheist and Dio knows it. > [@](#): > > I don’t believe in God > [@](#): > > and since I have said I’m atheist and Zombie knows it > [@](#): > > I’m an atheistic, mostly practicing, refrain-from-pork-and-Christmas, only-date-other-Jews type. > [@](#): > > My deism? I’m an atheist. You haven’t once called yourself a theist, until this thread where you claim to be both, neither and have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/40 "2011-08-24T15:54:22Z")
> [@Lago\_Ys-Transform](#): > > It’d be like several comic book artists trying to get you to read their product line at a convention and one of them makes a pitch of ‘my protagonist has ALL of the superpowers ever and beats up all of their other protagonists–in fact those guys don’t even have superpowers, only my guy does, and he’s even more badass then them’. Where you’re going wrong is in thinking of God as like a protagonist in a comic book, when really God is analogous to the comic book artist him/herself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866.md?page=3)