# Why does God need to be the only God AND omnipotent to boot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866 "2011-08-24T04:28:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/81 "2011-08-26T22:15:55Z")
I’m okay with admitting that organized religion served a purpose at some point. I don’t see why we still need it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/82 "2011-08-26T23:20:45Z")
Wait wait wait wait wait, OP, take it from the top. Who says the god of the Bible is the only god ? Not himself, that’s for sure. It’s even in the first commandment : “I am the Lord thy god, […] you shall have no other gods before me”. Which I read as “you worship **me** , fuckface, not any of them other losers, \*entiendes \*?”. There are quite a few other bits of the book where god is credited as being super awesome and the most coolest god of them all, waaaay better than the god of these bastards over there - but it doesn’t deny their existence. At best you can infer that they’re lower or less powerful gods, since they weren’t the ones who created the whole thing ; meaning that Yahweh must have created them too and one might as well worship numbah one instead of the blokes lower on the totem pole. Then there’s the issue of the devil, an immortal being who supposedly can speak to people in their minds and influence their actions, cribs in his own parallel dimension and lives for the day he’ll raid god’s own parallel dimension. That’s sort of godlike in itself, isn’t it ? It sure is miles above our own sorry paygrade. As for omnipotence, that too is something biblically disputable - Yawheh got stumped by the chariots of iron of that mountain tribe the name of which I forget. Maybe he’s like the shidhe and cold iron is his kryptonite ;). [QUOTE=Measure for Measure] The persistence of Hinduism is admittedly a puzzle. [/QUOTE] You say that like it’s the only form of paganism that resisted the persistent drone of the missionaries - but Shinto’s still going strong, as is Buddhism, as are quite a number of African animist cults. Basically, wherever monotheists couldn’t just kill everyone they didn’t convert, or at least coerce them to become monotheists themselves, the local faith sticks around. ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/83 "2011-08-27T04:27:12Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > What if you just don’t know? > > And more importantly, don’t care? That would make you an Agnostic or Pragmatic theist. [Apatheism - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism) ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/84 "2011-08-27T04:51:59Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Untrue. … One could never have considered the issue at all. Agreed, which would make me an adherent of… > [@](#): > > Apathetic agnosticism (also called pragmatic agnosticism) is the view that thousands of years of debate have neither proven, nor dis-proven, the existence of one or more deities (gods). This view concludes that even if one or more deities exist, they do not appear to be concerned about the fate of humans. Therefore, their existence has little impact on personal human affairs and should be of little theological interest. Wikipedia ETA: Works for me! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/85 "2011-08-27T14:12:36Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > As for omnipotence, that too is something biblically disputable - Yawheh got stumped by the chariots of iron of that mountain tribe the name of which I forget. Maybe he’s like the shidhe and cold iron is his kryptonite Six days of hard work does it, too. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/86 "2011-08-27T15:04:27Z")
A nitpick: In the Hebrew translation, it reads more like “abstained”, or “did not continue/do”. So basically, he stopped. There’s nothing in there that says he was _tired_. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/87 "2011-08-27T15:09:23Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > A nitpick: In the Hebrew translation, it reads more like “abstained”, or “did not continue/do”. > > So basically, he stopped. There’s nothing in there that says he was _tired_. That has always been my position. Yahweh stopped working because he was done, not because he didn’t have any more in him. Unfortunately, that does nothing to explain the iron chariots thing (which, I note, was assiduously skipped over by my Biblical literalist church in the “read the bible through in a year” thing we did in Sunday school once. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/88 "2011-08-27T15:32:20Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > That has always been my position. Yahweh stopped working because he was done, not because he didn’t have any more in him. > > Unfortunately, that does nothing to explain the iron chariots thing (which, I note, was assiduously skipped over by my Biblical literalist church in the “read the bible through in a year” thing we did in Sunday school once. [Is this what you guys mean?](http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0701.htm) It sounds like Judah could not drive out…not…HaShem literally could not. The whole book of Judges deals with the Israelites suffering for turning away from God. As you read the chapter, you’ll see that many peoples were not ‘driven out’. v 2:3 > [@](#): > > And the angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim. {P} > > And he said: '… I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I swore unto your fathers; and I said: I will never break My covenant with you > > and ye shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall break down their altars; but ye have not hearkened unto My voice; what is this ye have done? > > Wherefore I also said: I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be unto you as snares, and their gods shall be a trap unto you.’ etc etc > [@](#): > > 23 So the LORD left those nations, without driving them out hastily; neither delivered He them into the hand of Joshua. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/89 "2011-08-27T15:41:14Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > [Is this what you guys mean?](http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0701.htm) Yep. > [@](#): > > It sounds like Judah could not drive out…not…HaShem literally could not. Not to me. Here’s the exact verse taken from your own cite: \ ***19** And the LORD was with Judah; and he drove out the inhabitants of the hill-country; for he could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. \* The antecedent of _he_ seems to be “the Lord,” not Judah. And even if it is, it makes no difference. If Yahweh is omnipotent and “with” Judah, then why could not Judah drive out warriors using iron chariots? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/90 "2011-08-27T15:51:38Z")
The Lord was _with_ Judah because Judah was _righteous_ and the Lord was with the Israelites, anyway. But you can see if you keep reading that the Lord was with Benjamin, and Manasseh, and everyone else too and they did not succeed in driving everyone out (as was their punishment). ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/91 "2011-08-27T16:02:27Z")
[The Shoftim on Chabad.org has ‘he’ to ‘they’.](http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15809/showrashi/true) I don’t know how it was originally written or if the verb/noun agreement is appropriate…maybe a native Hebrew speaker with knowledge of Biblical Hebrew could help with that one. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/92 "2011-08-27T16:50:21Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > The antecedent of _he_ seems to be “the Lord,” not Judah. And even if it is, it makes no difference. If Yahweh is omnipotent and “with” Judah, then why could not Judah drive out warriors using iron chariots? At the time, Judah was a tribe, not a person (the patriarch having died some 400 years earlier), so “he” wouldn’t make much sense if it referred to Judah. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/93 "2011-08-27T16:59:32Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > The Lord was _with_ Judah because Judah was _righteous_ and the Lord was with the Israelites, anyway. > > But you can see if you keep reading that the Lord was with Benjamin, and Manasseh, and everyone else too and they did not succeed in driving everyone out (as was their punishment). The verse specifically said that the Lord could not defeat the enemy because they had iron chariots. > [@brocks](#): > > At the time, Judah was a tribe, not a person (the patriarch having died some 400 years earlier), so “he” wouldn’t make much sense if it referred to Judah. You are, of course, correct. I thought so anyway but was too lazy to verify. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/94 "2011-08-27T17:06:07Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > The verse specifically said that the Lord could not defeat the enemy because they had iron chariots. The verse I just cited said that _they_ could not defeat the enemy because the enemy had iron chariots. Plus it just wouldn’t be very good PR for Israelites/Hebrews/Jews to carry on this verse for hundreds - thousands - of years of a God who was stopped by iron. > [@](#): > > 1. And Judah captured Gaza with its territory, and Ashkelon with its territory, and Ekron with its territory. > > 2. And the Lord was with Judah, and they drove out the inhabitants of the mountains; but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, for they had iron chariots. > > 3. And they gave Hebron to Caleb, as Moses had spoken; and he drove out from there the three sons of the giant. > > 4. And the children of Benjamin did not drive out the Jebusites that inhabited Jerusalem; and the Jebusites dwelt with the children of Benjamin in Jerusalem until this day. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/95 "2011-08-27T17:42:08Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Plus it just wouldn’t be very good PR for Israelites/Hebrews/Jews to carry on this verse for hundreds - thousands - of years of a God who was stopped by iron. There’s a future precedent for it in Mark 6, where it says Jesus couldn’t perform any mighty works in his home town, because the people who knew him didn’t believe he was holy. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/96 "2011-08-27T18:18:50Z")
Yeah, but I’m not Christian and I don’t buy the ‘precedents’ Christians claim are in my Tenakh. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/97 "2011-08-27T18:21:36Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Yeah, but I’m not Christian and I don’t buy the ‘precedents’ Christians claim are in my Tenakh. The incident **brock** mentioned doesn’t matter anyway, even if you _were_ arguing from a Christian perspective. There’s no such thing as “future precedent”; the two terms are warring with one another. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/98 "2011-08-27T19:01:53Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > The incident **brock** mentioned doesn’t matter anyway, even if you _were_ arguing from a Christian perspective. There’s no such thing as “future precedent”; the two terms are warring with one another. It was a deliberate oxymoron, but the point is that it _is_ possible for something that makes your God look weak to survive in your scriptures for thousands of years. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866/99 "2011-08-27T19:08:48Z")
It just seems rather counter-productive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-god-need-to-be-the-only-god-and-omnipotent-to-boot/593866.md?page=4)