# Why does Hillary scare you? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 3, 2003, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965 "2003-07-03T06:19:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Audrey\_Levins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/21 "2003-07-03T21:48:31Z")
She reminds me of Martha Stewart. And it’s _not_ a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/22 "2003-07-03T22:29:05Z")
Why do I fear Hillary Clinton? Well, let’s see. First of all, I fear her because she is _effective_. I’m not a liberal, so naturally I don’t want liberals to succeed in politics, and she has demonstrated the capacity for doing so–in spades. I didn’t fear Dukakis. I _do_ fear Hillary. Secondly, I fear her because she has mastered the art of manipulating the levers of power for her own benefit while simultaneously posing as a _victim_. Most politicians can’t do this. I mean, even people who _like_ George W. Bush don’t regard him as a victim. But they _do_ regard Hillary that way, because of the whole “wronged woman” thing. It makes her seem more sincere. It makes her more dangerous. It will only be worse if she wins the nomination for President. She’ll be the first woman to win a major party nomination, and you can count on some Republican somewhere to make some cretinous remark about how “real men have to stick together to keep this (slur of your choice) out of the White House”. And she’ll be a victim again. Finally, I fear her because she has demonstrated utter ruthlessness in getting what she wants–from the Travel Office firings to the commodities trading to the shredded billing records to the smearing of Clinton’s “other women”. This trait is hardly unique among politicians. But again, Hillary combines an ability to do all of those things _while retaining her public image as a sincere, dispassionate crusader for the underprivileged_. If she is elected, she will want to leave behind larger, more expensive federal entitlements as her legacy. And she will get what she wants. Before 2000, I would not have though it possible for _any_ First Lady to move directly from that role to the United States Senate–much less one whose marriage was a train wreck. She did it. I would not sell her short again. So yeah, I fear her. ---
**Author:** ![Read\_Neck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@Read\_Neck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Read_Neck)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/23 "2003-07-03T23:21:46Z")
Check out the third pic down on her [website](http://clinton.senate.gov/) . Now that’s scary. I don’t understand the logic of alienating people like that. Left,right or center their’s a lot of believers out there. Even worse she’s stupid and doesn’t realise the implications as others see it. I can only imagine her at a World Summit and it’s not pretty. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/24 "2003-07-03T23:26:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Read\_Neck \* > Check out the third pic down on her [website](http://clinton.senate.gov/) . Now that’s scary. I don’t understand the logic of alienating people like that. _(rjung goes to site, checks third image down)_ “Stop Hate Crimes”. You find that scary? 😕 :eek: 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Read\_Neck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@Read\_Neck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Read_Neck)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/25 "2003-07-03T23:35:28Z")
Look closer. “Religion is immoral” on the posterboard. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/26 "2003-07-04T01:42:08Z")
In the IMHO thread, I believe I answered: 'Hillary C. and **Zoe** , but not in that order." Since Zoe is the OP of this thread, maybe I should answer more completely. I fear Hillary for many of the same reasons that others have already posted here. I fear Zoe more, however, because in an earlier thread she admitted to having once been an English teacher. An _English Teachur?_ What’s NOT to fear? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/27 "2003-07-04T02:47:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Read\_Neck \* > \*\*Even worse she’s stupid and doesn’t realise the implications as others see it. I can only imagine her at a World Summit and it’s not pretty. \*\* Hilary Clinton is many things (I don’t like her much myself), but one thing she is not is _stupid_. I really don’t think you can say that with any sort of accuracy, when even her worst critics acknowledge her intelligence (usually as a reason to dislike or “fear” her). Sounds more like you’re making reasons up to dislike her, rather than learning anything substantive about her. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Read\_Neck \* > **Look closer. “Religion is immoral” on the posterboard.** And here again… you should take a closer look at this photo yourself. The posterboard in question is well behind Clinton, and clearly not being held by her. This reflects on her how? **Read\_Neck** , there are valid reasons to dislike or disagree with someone, and there are kneejerk reactions. Your knee must be hurting pretty badly at this point, from all that overextension. Speaking for myself, I’m no fan of Hilary Clinton’s. I most likely wouldn’t vote for her in an election, unless the candidate pool was really poor. However, neither do I fear her, mostly because frankly, for all the extreme views people associate with her, I see her as pretty much more of the same, a politician who is primarily interested in politics for their own personal gain, rather than for the overall good. Just like her husband, just like Bush (both of them), and just like nearly every top-level politician we’ve seen for the last several decades. There are ideological differences, to be sure… but in practice, I think Hilary would bring about very little real change. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/28 "2003-07-04T03:08:27Z")
“I disagree with every single political position that I know she espouses, and the fact that she could get into the position to have her political views made into laws.” –Which is exactly how _I_ feel about our _current_ President . . . ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/29 "2003-07-04T06:28:10Z")
What scares me about her is not just her political stances, but her overall “Will to Power”. She seems to have the same determination to rule as other historical sweethearts like Hitler and Stalin. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/30 "2003-07-04T06:30:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Philster \* > \*\*I’m afraid of Democrats in general, \*\* This statement bothered me at first, until I realized what a horribly hypocritical thing it was for me to be bothered. I just had to look down at [my own chest right this minute](http://fff.fathom.org/pages/opalcat/republicans-shirt.jpg) to see my “Honey, I promise there are _no_ republicans under the bed” t-shirt. I’m fairly frightened by Republicans (well, more by their ideals, which actually terrify me) myself. Hillary? I like her. If she runs for any office that I’m eligible to vote for, I’ll vote for her. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/31 "2003-07-04T06:32:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*–Which is exactly how _I_ feel about our _current_ President . . . \*\* Yeah. What Eve said. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/32 "2003-07-04T07:47:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Read\_Neck \* > Look closer. “Religion is immoral” on the posterboard. 1. As others have noted, Hillary isn’t holding or endorsing the sign. I don’t even know if she realizes it’s behind her. 2. The top of the posterboard is cut off, so we don’t know what the full message is. For all you know, it could be “(Hating People By Their) Religion Is Immoral,” which would certainly tie in to the theme of the photo itself. I mean, yeah, if Hillary was posing for a picture at the Atheists of America rally, you might have a point. But as it is, you’re pointing to a _partial_ posterboard in the _background_ of a photo and extrapolating her entire political philosophy out of that. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/33 "2003-07-04T12:40:44Z")
And if she were posing for a picture at the Atheists of America rally, exactly what point do you think you would have? That she was willing to support unpopular causes even if it costs her votes? That she wasn’t in the pocket of Pat Robertson? That everyone in America deserves to be heard? Which of these points bother _you_? Do you know what scares me? The demonization of political opponents that has become the norm in America today. It isn’t good enough for some people to just oppose an opponent’s ideas-the opponent must be described as an inhuman monster, a “Hitler” if you will, who is deliberately setting out to destroy America. Some of you aren’t describing a political opponent. You are describing a Marvel Comics supervillian- I mean, just listen to yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/34 "2003-07-04T12:56:15Z")
> [@](#): > > She seems to have the same determination to rule as other historical sweethearts like Hitler and Stalin. Wow, a double Godwin. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/35 "2003-07-04T14:14:55Z")
5-HT and Philster: With regards to capitalizing on family connections it’s one of those pot calling the kettle black/double standard type things. Besides, the right wing invokes Bill Clinton when someone criticizes Bush as president, so I thought I’d give it a go invoking Bush when someone criticizes Hillary as a coattail-rider. ---
**Author:** ![NothingMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b77776/32.png) [@NothingMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NothingMan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/36 "2003-07-04T15:37:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Philster \* > \*\*Hillary has the power base to get health care socialized/governmentized, that she would make corporate America look even more like the evil of the world (when it is not), that she would propogate the myth that the poor are noble and the rich are not, and that she would let the enviromentalists have too much irrational control or say. \*\* All of which are reasons why **I** would vote for her. Now excuse me while I go spend way too much money for my allergy meds because I have no insurance. Its OK though, the rich are getting tax cuts so I am sure to see some of that “trickle down” to me. . . eventually. Right? Someday? Maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/37 "2003-07-04T17:16:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Czarcasm \* > \*\*Do you know what scares me? The demonization of political opponents that has become the norm in America today. It isn’t good enough for some people to just oppose an opponent’s ideas-the opponent must be described as an inhuman monster, a “Hitler” if you will, who is deliberately setting out to destroy America. Some of you aren’t describing a political opponent. You are describing a Marvel Comics supervillian- I mean, just listen to yourselves. \*\* I was just thinking the same thing last night, **Czarcasm** … I happened to watch _The Contender_ (great movie), and it brought this thread to mind. It’s really sad that the modern political stage is set more by scandal and demonization, on both sides of the spectrum, than by substantive issues and reasonable disagreements. It’s no longer enough to debate someone’s political views, it’s now necessary to also dig into their past sexual history, drug/alcohol history, what they did in college… frankly, I couldn’t give two shits whether Clinton inhaled, whether Bush is a former alcoholic, or whether Hilary participated in a BDSM foursome with her husband, Monica Lewinsky, and Linda Tripp. I care about what kind of leaders they make _today_, and how their actions _in office_ bear on that. “Bedroom scandal politics” seems to be norm of the day, rather than the exception. Many of the responses to this thread, which constitute largely unsubstantiated supposition, are an example of this. Much of the “Bush-bashing” that goes on because of, for example, his daughters’ misbehavior is another. I find it sad. I prefer to stick to what really matters, and stay out of the personal lives of politicians. Most of it’s stuff I don’t care to know about anyway. Yuck. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/38 "2003-07-05T01:10:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jklann \* > \*\*Why do I fear Hillary Clinton? Well, let’s see. > > First of all, I fear her because she is _effective_. I’m not a liberal, so naturally I don’t want liberals to succeed in politics, and she has demonstrated the capacity for doing so–in spades. I didn’t fear Dukakis. I _do_ fear Hillary…Finally, I fear her because she has demonstrated utter ruthlessness in getting what she wants–from the Travel Office firings to the commodities trading to the shredded billing records to the smearing of Clinton’s “other women”. This trait is hardly unique among politicians. But again, Hillary combines an ability to do all of those things _while retaining her public image as a sincere, dispassionate crusader for the underprivileged_. \*\* I think **jklann** has expressed well the reasoning behind the negative feeling that many people have about Hillary Clinton. I don’t believe her drive for power and money, or the hypocrisy she’s demonstrated make her all that different from other politicians. She does have some sort of charisma and she’s a serious aspirant for the White House, which makes her a lightning rod for attacks from the Right (the fear that she cares enough about major policy changes to risk her political career is unjustified, in my opinion). Those who really do believe she’ll institute major leftward/socialistic changes in the U.S. should be hoping that the Dems defeat Bush in '04. If he wins re-election, Hillary Clinton will have taken a huge step towards winning the presidency in '08. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/39 "2003-07-05T01:16:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mack \* > \*\*5-HT and Philster: > > With regards to capitalizing on family connections it’s one of those pot calling the kettle black/double standard type things. > > Besides, the right wing invokes Bill Clinton when someone criticizes Bush as president, so I thought I’d give it a go invoking Bush when someone criticizes Hillary as a coattail-rider. \*\* Could you show me where President Bush posted in this thread? if not, who is the pot in this case? Or are you just assuming that anyone who dislikes Hillary is a Bush supporter? Personally, Hillary scares the shit out of me for many of the same reasons that others have listed above, and you know what? So does Dubya. But don’t let that stop you, **Eve** , and **Opal** from kicking the shit out of that strawman. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965/40 "2003-07-05T01:34:38Z")
Please show me where I was bringing up straw men? You’ve got me really confused. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hillary-scare-you/185965.md?page=3)