# Why does Hollywood think that Female military Officers are called 'Sir?' **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [August 4, 2021, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032 "2021-08-04T13:58:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/1 "2021-08-04T13:58:49Z")
My wife and I were watching TV last night, and on two different shows, female military Officers were called “Sir.” Never in my 30 years in the military did I see this happen, and I can’t imagine that my fellow Officers that were female would have been pleased if they were ever called “Sir.” Where did Hollywood come up with this? Do they think it’s somehow sexiest that women superiors are called “ma’am?” Is this done outside the United States? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/2 "2021-08-04T14:00:33Z")
What sort of shows was it on? A lot of shows in the future use “sir” for both men and women. Also, on the show “Castle” the chief asks to be addressed as “sir” for…reasons I can’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/3 "2021-08-04T14:02:24Z")
Can you give specific examples? The only ones I can think of are science fiction where the term has supposedly turned gender neutral. Specifically in Star Trek Voyager Janeway acknowledges that using sir is correct but she prefers the more old fashioned “Ma’am.” ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/4 "2021-08-04T14:43:13Z")
I really want to say that at least one of the US military branches has both Sir or Ma’am acceptable for us with female officers. I remember reading that a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/5 "2021-08-04T16:12:54Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Can you give specific examples? You and **Munch** may be correct. One show was “Fringe” and the other was “WandaVision.” ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/6 "2021-08-04T16:27:51Z")
Only explanation I can think of is 1. a super lazy and careless scriptwriter and somehow nobody else in the production team caught it; or 1. it’s a recruit who’s become so accustomed to calling every superior “sir” that he fails to catch himself in time when the superior’s a woman. (the latter almost happened to me in some sort of teen boot camp program at age 15; I became so trained into “sir” everything, and women around us were so rare, that when there was a woman, it was “…ma’am!”…after some frantic mental scrambling and almost saying sir) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/7 "2021-08-04T17:16:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > a super lazy and careless scriptwriter and somehow nobody else in the production team caught it; My guess would be that- I think there can be a lot of assumption that goes on; officers are always “Sir”, and then just taking that and running with it, as if it was something that goes with being an officer, not being a _male_ officer. I think on Star Trek, it was just a goofy way to point up gender equality starting in the 1960s- everyone was “Sir” or “Mister” instead of “Ma’am” or “Miss/Mrs/Ms” (how modern day navies do it as I understand). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/8 "2021-08-04T17:55:34Z")
The science fiction webcomic Schlock Mercenary used “Sir” for officers of all genders. The first time it came up, the author included a footnote that, by the 30th century, the term had evolved into being gender-neutral, and then left it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/9 "2021-08-04T18:06:19Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I think on Star Trek, it was just a goofy way to point up gender equality starting in the 1960s- everyone was “Sir” or “Mister” … My memory of TOS is pretty bad but I don’t remember Uhura ever being referred to as Sir, much less Mr. Uhura. Her first name was apparantly Lieutenant. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/10 "2021-08-04T18:27:29Z")
How about this: Why is it when a male and female officer are engaged in combat training, halfway through Judo-ing each other, their faces wind up 6 inches apart as they give each other a longing gaze? How come that never happens when it’s two men fighting? ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/11 "2021-08-04T18:33:35Z")
Watch much TV lately? It’s coming soon. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/12 "2021-08-04T22:39:05Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > A lot of shows in the future use “sir” for both men and women. Yes. The two that come to mind are “The Tomorrow War” and the 90s version of Outer Limits had an episode (both set in the future) where female officers are addressed as “sir.” It’s pretty jarring to hear and it seems off and forced. I guess as the OP did, that perhaps in the future, female officers will feel inferior as a soldier calls the “other” officers “sir” but not her. Why, because she is a woman? Huh? But I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/13 "2021-08-04T22:51:03Z")
Huh. I’ve always just assumed that was how it actually worked. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/14 "2021-08-04T23:04:08Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Her first name was apparantly Lieutenant. Same as Sulu! (And The Closer’s Provenza.) TWoK’s “Mister Saavik” bugged me when it was new, and still does. Mostly because there was no precedent and still no postcedent. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/15 "2021-08-04T23:36:08Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > > [@bump](#): > > > > I think on Star Trek, it was just a goofy way to point up gender equality starting in the 1960s- everyone was “Sir” or “Mister” … > > My memory of TOS is pretty bad but I don’t remember Uhura ever being referred to as Sir, much less Mr. Uhura. Her first name was apparantly Lieutenant. Since there only seemed to be one enlisted person on the original Enterprise (Yeoman Rand) there wasn’t much opportunity for anyone to call her Ma’am. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/16 "2021-08-04T23:49:40Z")
Apparently female officers can be properly called “sir” or “ma’am”. [SOURCE](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/alpha-blog-charlie/202103/the-female-military-officer-is-called-sir) ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/17 "2021-08-04T23:56:41Z")
That’s not what that source says. At all. The writer says she was often called “sir”, but that was an _incorrect_ form of address. She’s writing about why it happened, and how she reacted to it. She writes that neither letting it slide nor correcting the subordinate are right or wrong. She definitely _doesn’t_ write that calling a female officer “sir” is _proper_. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/18 "2021-08-05T00:12:08Z")
Well, she’s not correcting it either: > For now, I respond to ma’am, or sir. Further, her article suggests it is becoming more common. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/19 "2021-08-05T00:48:15Z")
Uh, no, her article is suggesting that _female officers_ are becoming more common. And she writes that _she_ responds to m’am or sir, not that “sir” is _correct_. Just before that, she writes: > [@](#): > > Female military officers feel differently regarding what to do about being called sir. I now let it slide every time. I feel that we are naturally moving in the right direction and that this will work itself out. > > However, letting it slide is not the stance of all women in the military. Others routinely correct men (and other women) when it happens. Neither approach is right or wrong. If calling a female officer “sir” were proper, female officers wouldn’t be choosing to whether to “let it slide” or “correct it”. It wouldn’t be an issue at all. We have _multiple_ veterans here on the 'Dope, and in this thread. We’re all telling you, calling a female superior “sir” simply isn’t the proper form of address in the real-world U.S. military. The article you’re citing does indicate that it _does_ happen, and female officers don’t always correct it, so in that sense, it’s not purely a Hollywood invention. So, I guess if a production includes a protocol mistake that goes uncorrected as a piece of verisimilitude, the article you’re citing backs that up. But it definitely does _not_ indicate it’s a _proper_ form of address. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032/20 "2021-08-05T01:13:31Z")
I’m missing where the military is saying it is improper. You have people in THIS thread saying female officers accept it. And if more women are excepting it then…what? Do you want to stop them? Are you the arbiter of this? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-hollywood-think-that-female-military-officers-are-called-sir/948032.md?page=2)