# Why does honey not spoil? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 19, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106 "2003-02-19T12:07:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Aslan\_of\_Narnia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Aslan\_of\_Narnia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aslan_of_Narnia)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/1 "2003-02-19T12:07:45Z")
I read that it doesn’t spoil, and that honey from 400 years ago would probably as fresh as the day it was made. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/2 "2003-02-19T12:16:02Z")
Strong sugar solutions are quite a hostile environment for bacteria; osmosis (the transfer of solvents from a weak solution to a stronger one) through the cell membranes dehydrates and kills them. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/3 "2003-02-19T12:44:54Z")
Honey has even been used as an anti-germ weapon. I think the Egyptions, under the medical studies of High Priest Imhotep (yes, THAT Imhotep), used it in recorded history. presumably, it was a folk remedy before that. ---
**Author:** ![Rie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Rie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rie)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/4 "2003-02-19T12:51:42Z")
Honey is still used by some of us homeopathic freaks as a salve for cuts and burns. And combined with peanut butter, it makes a tasty sandwich. Try THAT with Bactine. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/5 "2003-02-19T12:54:28Z")
I forgot to mention that social insects also often secrete antibiotic compounds; I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that compounds are found in honey. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/6 "2003-02-19T12:58:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aslan2 \* > \*\*I read that it doesn’t spoil, and that honey from 400 years ago would probably as fresh as the day it was made. Why? \*\* I’ve heard this too, on an email “fact list”. I’m pretty sure it’s mostly true-honey doesn’t spoil. That being said it does chrystalize, making honey retrieval from the bottom of a big plastic bear rather difficult as I found out this weekend. In other words, I don’t think that honey from 400 years ago would be fresh. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/7 "2003-02-19T13:07:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > **That being said it does chrystalize, making honey retrieval from the bottom of a big plastic bear rather difficult as I found out this weekend.** Tip: pop said bear into the microwave for a few seconds and Bob will most assuredly be your uncle. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/8 "2003-02-19T13:46:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aslan2 \* > \*\*I read that it doesn’t spoil, and that honey from 400 years ago would probably as fresh as the day it was made. Why? \*\* Sod 400… edible honey has been found inside Egyptian pyramids, thousands of years old. Honey doesn’t spoil, but it does segment (I believe that’s the correct word, English not being my primary language) which you can see in jars of honey even after a relatively short while. Give it a go with a wooden spoon and soon you’ll have perfectly good honey again. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/9 "2003-02-19T14:02:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*Tip: pop said bear into the microwave for a few seconds and Bob will most assuredly be your uncle. \*\* Crap! Where were you over the weekend when I figured it’d be better to buy a whole _new_ bear? 😃 Grumble…It’s okay, the new bear loves me just the same…Granted I haven’t taken out his insides and smeared them on an english muffin yet… ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/10 "2003-02-19T14:34:31Z")
Ok, someone explain the whole honey/botulism relationship, please. ---
**Author:** ![Popup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Popup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Popup)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/11 "2003-02-19T15:04:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Priceguy \* > **Sod 400… edible honey has been found inside Egyptian pyramids, thousands of years old. Honey doesn’t spoil, but it does segment** The word you were looking for was _sediment_, yes? If so, almost, but not quite correct. What happens to honey during aging is that the sugar crystalises. The water content of honey varies, but is around 15%. This means that we have a very strong solution of sugar in water,and it can easily become a supercritical solution. What can happen is that the sugar forms crystals with an even lower water content. The remaining liquid will thus have a higher water content, and it might even be high enough for microbes to survive. [This cite](http://www.itdg.org/html/technical_enquiries/docs/honey_processing.pdf)(PDF) claims that a water content of 19% is enough for it to start fermenting. One way to reverse the crystalization is to heat up the honey. Warm water can hold much more sugar without crystals forming. One way to prevent crystalization of all the sugar is to form artificial crystalisation nuclei, by stirring the honey. This will break up existing crystals, and the resulting solution will contain many suspended mini-crystals, but will not form into larger crystals. It will look a bit cloudy, but don’t worry. ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/12 "2003-02-19T15:05:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*Strong sugar solutions are quite a hostile environment for bacteria; osmosis (the transfer of solvents from a weak solution to a stronger one) through the cell membranes dehydrates and kills them. \*\* IANAS\ but mange…may i call you Mange? Anyway i believe you accidentally reversed the definition of osmosis ---
**Author:** ![Popup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Popup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Popup)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/13 "2003-02-19T15:10:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Turek \* > \*\*Ok, someone explain the whole honey/botulism relationship, please. \*\* Well, according to [this](http://www.nhb.org/foodtech/tgloss.html#sectI), it’s not a very common problem, but might be one for infants: > [@](#): > > nfant botulism is a rare but serious paralytic disease caused by the microorganism Clostridium botulinum. After ingestion, C. botulinum spores can germinate, grow and produce toxin in the lower bowel of some infants under one year of age. C. botulinum spores are widely distributed in nature. They can be found in soil, dust, the air and raw agricultural products. Honey is also a potential source of C. botulinum spores. Infants are susceptible to infant botulism until their intestinal microflora develop. Children and adults with normal intestinal microflora are able to ingest C. botulinum spores without harm. The National Honey Board, along with other health organizations, recommends that honey not be fed to infants under one year of age. There are also other health issues with honey. The bees collect fluids secreted by plants, and some of them are dangerous to us, but not to the bees. I don’t remember exactly what circumstances to avoid, but you can find it all in _On Food and Cooking_, by Harold McGee. ---
**Author:** ![Popup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Popup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Popup)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/14 "2003-02-19T15:13:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jonpluc \* > \*\*IANAS\ but mange…may i call you Mange? Anyway i believe you accidentally reversed the definition of osmosis \*\* I think he pretty much nailed it. Here is Merriam-Websters take: > [@](#): > > Main Entry: **os_mo_sis** > 1 : movement of a solvent through a semipermeable membrane (as of a living cell) into a solution of higher solute concentration that tends to equalize the concentrations of solute on the two sides of the membrane Sounds to me very much like > [@](#): > > **the transfer of solvents from a weak solution to a stronger one** Or did I miss something? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/15 "2003-02-19T15:19:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jonpluc \* > \*\*IANAS\ but mange…may i call you Mange? Anyway i believe you accidentally reversed the definition of osmosis \*\* Nope; maybe you’re thinking of _Reverse Osmosis_? - a process commonly used to get drinkable water from seawater? - in this case, the solvent does indeed move from the stronger solution to the weaker one, but that’s because the natural osmotic pressure is overcome by applying external pressure to the stronger solution. ---
**Author:** ![LordVor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90ced4/32.png) [@LordVor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LordVor)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/16 "2003-02-19T16:19:17Z")
I think **jonpluc** may have misread “transfer of solvents”. The ‘solvent’ is the thing that other things disolve in. Therefore, when you have two solvents (water, in this example) separated by a membrane (bug cells), and one has a high concentration of a substance (sugar, in the case of honey) and the other (the bug) has a low concentration, the solvent from the low concentration will seap into the higher concentration in an attempt to equalize the concentration. The sugar stays put, the water moves across the membrane. -lv ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/17 "2003-02-19T16:32:00Z")
“Strong sugar solutions are quite a hostile environment for bacteria” Don’t certain bacteria feed on sugar? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/18 "2003-02-19T16:40:13Z")
Many bacteria feed on sugar, but if the concentration is too high, they are unable to do so because the osmotic pressure between the fluid inside the bacterial cell and the honey outside is such that the water migrates through the cell membrane and out of the bacteria; without sufficient fluid inside the bacterial cell, the cell dies. ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/19 "2003-02-19T17:51:34Z")
Lordvor was correct i did misread the solvents part as being the object and not the liquid its dissolved in. My apologies 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Washte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Washte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washte)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106/20 "2003-02-19T19:09:35Z")
> [@](#): > > homeopathic freaks checking in here. Honey is fantastic on cuts. As is cayenne pepper and spiderwebbing, but there ya go. Be very careful of zapping the bear in the microwave though, **Meatros**. It heats up very quickly and you’ll risk melting the bear (making a massive gooey mess) and the steam/heat of the honey will scald the skin of you quicker than a gnat can bat its eyelashes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-honey-not-spoil/156106.md?page=2)