Right. Should…should.should… That’s all fine for the philosophical discussion. But until the American public can be convinced, any politician running on a platform of “abortions at any time for any reason” is going to lose. There’s not enough support for that platform to allow the politician to win. And, in fact, it’s likely to allow a rabid, anti-abortion politician to win. I feel it would be far better for the pro-choice supporters to have a more nuanced position which allows abortion for any reason early, but has it be conditional later on. Philosophically that may be wrong, but it’s more likely to be a position which will stand in today’s America.
And with regards to abortions at any time for any reason, I’m sure it would be rare, but I’m sure it would happen as well. There are people who throw their newborns in the trash. I don’t see why they those same people wouldn’t get an abortion at 8.99 months.
You’d still have to find a doctor willing to do it.
And even so, it’s still not your decision to make. You should have no say in what she wants to do with her body.
Because theirs literally no such thing as an abortion at 8.99 months. It’s a myth the rightwing propagandists made up to make gullible people be afraid to educate themselves.
I mean, there is. But it’s because the fetus is non-viable, or delivery poses serious risks to the mother.
But that’s not important, and anti-choicers would rather force a woman to bear a dead child or to risk her life (or both) than have any sense of bodily autonomy.
No one, because it’s a toxic platform. But the topic of this thread is about all or nothing, which the pro-choice supporters are often on the “all” side. To say that abortions should be “all, without restriction”, but couch that by saying “but no one would have a causal abortion at 8.99 months, and besides, no doctor would do it anyway” is not totally consistent. There are some people out there who would have an abortion at 8.99 months because they are going on vacation and can’t fly if they are pregnant. The resistance to support casual abortions at any time is part of the reason that the “all” position on abortion isn’t very stable. Even if someone supports it, they have trouble coming to terms with supporting someone actually getting an abortion for convenience just a day before their due date.
And just to clarify, I would support a woman getting an abortion at any time for any reason. I would feel weird about it if she did it at 8.99 months so she could go on vacation, but that’s her choice. In the larger scheme, she probably wouldn’t be ready for motherhood if that’s her choice, and the kid is probably better off for it.
Pretty much any pro-choice rally has throngs of people with slogans like “My body, my choice” and “Keep your laws out of my uterus”. I can’t recall any banner saying something like “Pro choice at the beginning, but reasonable restrictions later on” or anything like that. The pro-choice supporters seem to be taking the position that the person is totally in charge of what happens to the fetus up until the day it is born. So that seems like an “all” position, where they could have an abortion at any time for any reason that they desire.
“8.99 months” into a pregnancy would literally be less than eight hours from a nominal nine month gestation. This kind of absurd hyperbole doesn’t serve the discussion in any way.
If that is your definition of “all”, what the fuck is your definition of “compromise”? “Let me decide whether or not to let the fetus come to term” is NOT the opposite of “No abortions ever!!”.
I guess this is the crux of the issue. How does “Let me decide whether or not to let the fetus come to term” not mean “all abortions are allowed”? If the person carrying the fetus gets to decide, then that implies there are no restrictions, which seems to imply that all abortions are allowed. If there are implied restrictions, it’s not coming across in the messaging. I suppose you can argue with me about it, but I don’t represent the entirety of the American voting population. It is the mass of voters which need to be convinced of the difference.
To answer the OP, the controversy is that there’s any infringement at all. Maybe yes in practice almost all abortions would be allowed; but it’s the principle that the government can intrude at all that rankles.
I would assume that anyone who had remained pregnant for 8.99 months and then decided, at that point, that an abortion is necessary, either has profoundly compelling reasons for doing so or is one of the world’s most pisspoor planners ever.
So yes. I might not approve personally if I knew all the facts and attitudes, and I might hold a low opinion of her as a consequence, but it’s her decision to make.
There is no doctor that will kill a full-term baby in the womb, regardless of the mother wishes. This whole idea is ridiculous.
That said, if I had to make a choice, while my wife was giving birth, due to some bizarre confluence of medical emergencies, between her or the baby, I would choose her. I don’t even know the baby yet.
Jesus fucking christ man. You have got to stop thinking you know better than her what’s best for her.
This, this right here, this attitude of ‘I know better than you, so I’ll make your decisions for you’ is the entire reason we’re still having this debate.
You don’t know better than her.
And that’s fine, feel as weird about it as you want. But don’t attempt to dictate her life around what you feel weird about. Pretend for a minute that something you do, some random stranger thinks is weird and decides should be illegal. Does that seem even a little bit fair?
Are you, personally, pregnant at this very moment? If not, you have no say and your opinion means less than nothing. No person has say over the rights to another person’s medical decision and that’s basically the end of it. Sorry if that seems too “all or nothing” for you but that’s how it is. Just as I don’t have any say over whether or not you get a mole removed or acquire a regrettable tattoo or get a liver transplant or, unfortunately, whether or not you keep your vaccinations up to date.
No uterus, no vote. No pregnancy in a uterus you own, no vote. I’m not sure why men especially are so freaking dense about this but if it’s not possible for you to be affected by something you don’t get the right to gatekeep it–and cismen don’t get pregnant so cismen need to STFU and SIT DOWN. This discussion is for those who can be directly affected by it. No contributions from the peanut gallery have been requested nor are any of them welcome.
