As soon as it can survive outside the mom’s body it is human. Until then it is an accumulation of cells that may or may not have a heartbeat and movement - and please note that there is heartbeat before there is a full functioning brain, and a dead fish can still twitch.
Yeah, countries like…Oregon, for instance.
I get that there is a certain baggage to the phrase “pro abortion”, especially if it conjures images of abortion parties and crazies trying to convince people to abort.
However, it needn’t be interpreted that way.
If I said that I am pro-nuclear power, that needn’t mean that I think all power should be nuclear, nor that nuclear power is even the best option (generally speaking) – all it means is that I think the arguments of the anti-nuclear power folk aren’t very good, and nuclear is a viable power source.
If I said that I am pro-euthanasia, that needn’t mean that I think we should euthanize with abandon – all it means it that I disagree with the anti-euthanasia folk, and I believe that euthanasia is an important tool for a democratic people to have.
Similarly, the term pro-abortion needn’t be seen as anything more than the anti-anti-abortion position.
There are lots of terms that don’t intrinsically have to be seen as having a negative connotation, but are nonetheless routinely seen and interpreted that way on the basis of conventional usage.
And “pro-abortion” is one of them, as you note. Which is why “pro-abortion-rights”, “pro-reproductive-rights”, and “pro-choice” are all better terms for PR purposes than “pro-abortion”.
Good to know. I wasn’t sure about the current situation in the US state by state so I picked a more general example.
Good, then you will understand and abide by my wishes and the wishes of many women and not use that phrase to refer to our position.
This was posted by a Facebook friend of mine and sums up exactly what the Pro Choice position is all about:
I’m not pro-murdering babies.
I’m pro-Becky who found out at her 20 week anatomy scan that the infant she had been so excited to bring into this world had developed without life sustaining organs.
I’m pro-Susan who was sexually assaulted on her way home from work, only to come to the horrific realization that her assailant planted his seed in her when she got a positive pregnancy test result a month later.
I’m pro-Theresa who hemorrhaged due to a placental abruption, causing her parents, spouse, and children to have to make the impossible decision on whether to save her or her unborn child.
I’m pro-little Cathy who had her innocence ripped away from her by someone she should have been able to trust and her 11 year old body isn’t mature enough to bear the consequence of that betrayal.
I’m pro-Melissa who’s working two jobs just to make ends meet and has to choose between bringing another child into poverty or feeding the children she already has because her spouse walked out on her.
I’m pro-Brittany who realizes that she is in no way financially, emotionally, or physically able to raise a child.
I’m pro-Emily who went through IVF, ending up with SIX viable implanted eggs requiring selective reduction in order to ensure the safety of her and a SAFE amount of fetuses.
I’m pro-Christina who doesn’t want to be a mother, but birth control methods sometimes fail.
I’m pro-Jessica who is FINALLY getting the strength to get away from her physically abusive spouse only to find out that she is carrying the monster’s child.
I’m pro-Vanessa who went into her confirmation appointment after YEARS of trying to conceive only to hear silence where there should be a heartbeat.
I’m pro-Lindsay who lost her virginity in her sophomore year with a broken condom and now has to choose whether to be a teenage mom or just a teenager.
I’m pro-Courtney who just found out she’s already 13 weeks along, but the egg never made it out of her fallopian tube so either she terminates the pregnancy or risks dying from internal bleeding.
You can argue and say that I’m pro-choice all you want, but the truth is:
I’m pro-life.
Their lives.
Women’s lives.
You don’t get to pick and choose which scenarios should be accepted.
Women’s rights are meant to protect ALL women, regardless of their situation!
Bravo!!! This is exactly what Pro-Choice means.
Choice also means the authority to choose to not abort. The authority to choose to get pregnant in the first place. Once it has been established that women (or girls younger than the age of majority) are not to be allowed to make the decision to abort, because their judgment isn’t good enough and somebody else knows better, maybe the parents or perhaps the state can later decide that under some circumstances they should have their pregnancy terminated. Or that they should be barricaded from any possibility of sexual interaction to keep them from getting pregnant in an unapproved fashion or at an unapproved time.
Choice means “I was born with these parts and their capacities and they are a part of me, and I am not a resource for public consideration. You don’t get to decide; I do!”
I think we have done this before here but it is worth repeating.
Those opposed to abortion simply MUST make it all or nothing. Otherwise they really cannot support their position.
Is abortion ok one second after the sperm fertilizes an egg? If yes then is it ok two seconds later? Two minutes? Two hours? Two days? Weeks? Months?
Where is the line drawn?
Since those opposed to abortion cannot debate that they are only left with saying it is always wrong from the moment of conception. They certainly can not handle debates about rape or incest or ectopic pregnancies and such.
Anti-choice people can only ever be left with an all or nothing stance because they cannot support anything else. Abortion = bad to them. Full stop.
well said
We’re a little ahead of the game here in the PNW–but we voted for assisted suicide TWICE with a lot of federal obstruction so we’re a little attached to our bodily autonomy here. Abortion has basically no roadblocks here either, Oregon is one of the very few states where I feel safe being a woman.
Maybe if Roe is overturned and personhood begins at conception, an abortion could be rebadged as assisted fetal suicide.
It took an amendment to Ireland’s constitution to allow abortion, which didn’t become legal until 2019
Unless those Republicans running for state senate and Governor get into office, all of them playing the “I’m more to the right then thee” game.
Only three years, so bombings and assassinations on the US level not yet?
At the very least, it should follow that everyone who could possibly get pregnant should automatically get a child tax credit every year.
Under current regulations, a child who dies shortly after birth may still qualify for a child tax credit. And “undetected pregnancies”, which are terminated by an early miscarriage without anybody realizing that a pregnancy ever occurred, are not at all uncommon.
If every fertilized ovum, no matter how short-lived, is now to be considered a fully human person, then anybody who conceived and carried one for even the briefest space of time is entitled to parental benefits. So just to be on the safe side, everybody who might have been incubating one of these “fully human persons” without ever knowing it is entitled to a child tax credit.
I sincerely hope it stays that way. For now I think my rights aren’t directly threatened-The Netherlands have the right to a safe abortion enshrined in law since 1981, and we got rid of the mandatory 5-day waiting period for early termination (up tp 16 days after missed period ). Termination of pregnancy is legal up to 22 weeks of pregnancy and by medical exemption up to 24 weeks. So no 3rd trimester on principle.
With us, the laws coding euthanasia and assisted suicide are in place since 2001, with revisions in 2020. Since I’m pretty used to us being on the forefront of this issue, I’m always pleasantly surprised when it turns out others have followed suit in the meantime.
At the same time in Europe we have our own breed of 21st century autocrats, which has led to Poland adopting the most strict legislation on abortion within the EU, which leads to a lot of stress among Poles abroad and tensions in the EU. One thing I’ve learned in that sense is to never take this kind of enlightened progression for granted. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for all US women out there.
Genius, I like it!
After all that tantrum throwing and running off to Idaho the legislature did I think the GOP is going to have a rough time of it–especially since southern Oregon and out east where the rednecks live has been very hard hit by COVID. Guess they didn’t think it through how encouraging flouting quarantine and protection measures might adversely impact their voter base numbers. Idiots.
Yeah, me too.
This (and other similar ones) has been circulating for the last few days.
Because the anti-abortion position is based on the idea that personhood starts at conception. If that is the case, then all abortion is murder, all the time. If we accept that position, then every other position seems extreme.
If you want to oppose that position, then you have to start by arguing that it’s not murder because the fetus isn’t a person. If this is the case and there’s no person or murder involved, then why should there be any restrictions at all? Removing a fetus is no more morally fraught than removing an appendix or gallbladder. No moral valence whatsoever.
The existence of past compromises shows that the anti-abortion position is a lie. If you think all abortion is murder, then how can you be okay with a 6-week abortion ban that permits a little bit of murder? That’s morally incoherent, and it shows this isn’t about murder at all, it’s about making sure women get punished for having sex.