# Why does it seem like there are so few people actually in favor of "big government"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 27, 2016, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131 "2016-11-27T06:24:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/21 "2016-11-27T19:27:55Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Actually, we face a choice. We can all either have a government that responds to the will of the people, or we can all be wholly-owned subjects of the Koch brothers and their ilk. > > I can vote in the first case; I can’t in the second. The government must be more powerful than the things it seeks to control. A libertarian “government” is simply a free-fire zone for fatcats. With us (hint: includes you) as the targets. > > Give me big government over that any day. How big does it need to be? Big enough to reign in the fatcats. Why single out the Koch brothers and their ink? (Of which I am no fan.) We also don’t need to be “wholly-owned subjects” of George Soros and the AltLeft fatcats. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/22 "2016-11-27T19:29:40Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > … > How big is enough is a question. I personally believe the US government is big enough now and needs to be more efficient. It’s certainly arguable but I don’t think that making the government bigger in general is a good idea. Neither is making it smaller simply to satisfy people who think government is inherently bad. Agree on all counts. More efficiency plus actually enforcing the laws/reg on the books would be good. If those rules prove onerous as properly enforced, well that’ll drive the political will to change them appropriately. Leaving them on the books but widely unenforced is the worst of all worlds; it actively encourages disregard for all law. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/23 "2016-11-27T19:41:46Z")
Everyone wants a Big Government (except for tried and true libertarians I guess); they just disagree on what the Big Government should do and use the term to insult things they don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/24 "2016-11-27T19:44:09Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > “Propaganda” would include dystopian literature, like _1984_, in which an oppressive government controls every aspect of life, as well as real-world accounts of dysfunctional countries like the Soviet Union. > > “Bigger” government is more powerful government, and throughout its history the USA has been all about distrusting and limiting the power of the federal government. A government can be very small and still be tyrannical. Governments need to be big to do _useful_ things; not to be tyrannical or destructive. And opposition to the federal government has mostly been driven by the fact that for most of its history the federal government has been the main hurdle to authoritarians, bigotry and corruption. > [@Mangosteen](#): > > And that darn Bill Clinton when he said, “The era of big government is over” during his 1996 State of the Union address. And he calls himself a liberal! He wasn’t. He’s been called “the best Republican President we ever had” for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/25 "2016-11-27T20:06:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > A government can be very small and still be tyrannical. Governments need to be big to do _useful_ things; not to be tyrannical or destructive. > > And opposition to the federal government has mostly been driven by the fact that for most of its history the federal government has been the main hurdle to authoritarians, bigotry and corruption. > > Quote: > Originally Posted by Mangosteen > “And that darn Bill Clinton when he said, “The era of big government is over” during his 1996 State of the Union address. And he calls himself a liberal!” > He wasn’t. He’s been called “the best Republican President we ever had” for a reason. I thought he was called “The First Black President”. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/26 "2016-11-27T20:08:03Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Go right ahead, they take donations. > [@Mangosteen](#): > > There is a little check box on your tax form where _you_ can contribute as much money toward erasing the nation debt as you wish. > > Leave the rest of us out of it. How about zero percent taxes? Do you suppose we shouldn’t pay for our military or give anything back to the people who paid taxes all these years? So if we should have _some_ taxes, whether we increase or decrease them is just a matter of degree. We pay several percent less of our GDP in taxes than most other industrialized nations, while spending just as much. This can’t go on forever. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/27 "2016-11-27T20:52:33Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > How about zero percent taxes? Do you suppose we shouldn’t pay for our military or give anything back to the people who paid taxes all these years? So if we should have _some_ taxes, whether we increase or decrease them is just a matter of degree. We pay several percent less of our GDP in taxes than most other industrialized nations, while spending just as much. This can’t go on forever. Yeah ok. Maybe when you are talking about just federal income tax. I also pay quite a bit in state tax. And we have a high sales tax. And I live in the state with the highest property tax. And I pay for healthcare which other countries pay for with their taxes. Yes we pay a hell of a lot in taxes just not all at once. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/28 "2016-11-27T23:30:50Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Actually, we face a choice. We can all either have a government that responds to the will of the people, or we can all be wholly-owned subjects of the Koch brothers and their ilk. > > I can vote in the first case; I can’t in the second. The government must be more powerful than the things it seeks to control. A libertarian “government” is simply a free-fire zone for fatcats. With us (hint: includes you) as the targets. > > Give me big government over that any day. How big does it need to be? Big enough to reign in the fatcats. except, who are the “fatcats”? Which fatcats do you refer to? Someone else already mentioned soros and his ilk. The fact is the gov. in the US anyway, was formed by, and was formed of, and is still formed of, fatcats. How do you reign in the fatcats when the fatcats hold the reigns? ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/29 "2016-11-27T23:36:40Z")
Most of the cost of “big government” is just filing and record keeping. Without all the paperwork, everything our big government does would cost only a small fraction of the revenue. I have a theory that welfare could help more people at smaller cost if all the paperwork were abolished. Just have a desk in every community, where if you’'re in need, you write your name and how much you need on a chalkboard, and someone at a desk just hands you the money. No applications, no interviews, no record checks, no forms, just hand people the money. Very few people would publicly state that they were greedy and took more than they needed. I believe now that more than half of all paid employees of school boards never step into a classroom. For every teacher, there is more than one person who does nothing but keep records of how well the school is in conformity with all the regulatory burdens imposed upon it. Just let the school hire teachers to teach pupils, and pay them every Friday. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/30 "2016-11-27T23:41:17Z")
> [@guestchaz](#): > > except, who are the “fatcats”? Which fatcats do you refer to? Someone else already mentioned soros and his ilk. The fact is the gov. in the US anyway, was formed by, and was formed of, and is still formed of, fatcats. How do you reign in the fatcats when the fatcats hold the reigns? An informed electorate that does not vote against its own interests. Moderated by constitutional protections agains the tyranny of the majority. Campaign finance laws, increased transparency can help. But in the last decade we seem to be going backwards on the ideal of an informed electorate. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/31 "2016-11-28T04:45:51Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Actually, we face a choice. We can all either have a government that responds to the will of the people, or we can all be wholly-owned subjects of the Koch brothers and their ilk. > > I can vote in the first case; I can’t in the second. The government must be more powerful than the things it seeks to control. A libertarian “government” is simply a free-fire zone for fatcats. With us (hint: includes you) as the targets. > > Give me big government over that any day. How big does it need to be? Big enough to reign in the fatcats. Problem is, sometimes you’re the target of the government’s regulatory structure. A government can’t be fine tuned to just rein in “fatcats”. Just as a fatcat might want to expand their plant, you might want to build a mother in law cottage on your land. Oops! Sorry, no you can’t! Or maybe you’re benefitting from a tax break that you think you are entitled to but the government does not. Thing is, the fatcats will always be able to fight adverse government action. You can’t. When their boot comes down on you, you either comply or get crushed. It’s a lot easier to take on a corporation that’s wronged you in the courts than to appeal government decisions. In some cases, government agencies have even tried to claim that you have no right to seek redress. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/32 "2016-11-28T05:57:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s a lot easier to take on a corporation that’s wronged you in the courts than to appeal government decisions. Only when “big government” is around; otherwise the corporation will just crush or ignore you. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/33 "2016-11-28T06:28:12Z")
Doesn’t take big government to give citizens access to the courts. Big government has often denied citizens such access however. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/34 "2016-11-28T06:44:35Z")
“Big government? Sure. I would like the government to be big enough to enforce the law in my country. Why, what are you trying to get away with?” ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/35 "2016-11-28T06:47:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Problem is, sometimes you’re the target of the government’s regulatory structure. A government can’t be fine tuned to just rein in “fatcats”. Just as a fatcat might want to expand their plant, you might want to build a mother in law cottage on your land. Oops! Sorry, no you can’t! Or maybe you’re benefitting from a tax break that you think you are entitled to but the government does not. > > Thing is, the fatcats will always be able to fight adverse government action. You can’t. When their boot comes down on you, you either comply or get crushed. It’s a lot easier to take on a corporation that’s wronged you in the courts than to appeal government decisions. In some cases, government agencies have even tried to claim that you have no right to seek redress. Actually, this sounds like a line written by fat cats. Look at, for example, Affirmative Action, or the entire body of anti-trust law. Lots of laws are written with huge exemptions for “the little guy.” It’s the rule rather than the exception. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/36 "2016-11-28T08:02:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Doesn’t take big government to give citizens access to the courts. Big government has often denied citizens such access however. More often it’s small government that does that. In real life the smaller the government, the more incompetent and corrupt it tends to be. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/37 "2016-11-28T10:15:57Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > “Big government? Sure. I would like the government to be big enough to enforce the law in my country. Why, what are you trying to get away with?” That’s small government. The novel idea that government must let many crimes go because of limited resources and too many laws to enforce is one of the problems with big government. It also introduced the concept of passing laws that are never intended to be enforced. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/38 "2016-11-28T10:19:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > More often it’s small government that does that. In real life the smaller the government, the more incompetent and corrupt it tends to be. So all the countries that decentralize, which would be most of them, are being stupid? Geez, lower levels of government were instituted precisely because you can’t have the same government that runs the military handling garbage collecting. That’s been one of the big beefs about the US federal government is that it has its hands in too many pies and thus can’t really do any one thing well anymore. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/39 "2016-11-28T13:03:39Z")
In my experience, people who say “big government” mean “government which spends money on stuff which doesn’t benefit me.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131/40 "2016-11-28T14:25:05Z")
What we actually mean most of the time is government that takes too much of our money to justify the services offered, and which is only there when you really wish they wouldn’t be. Illegal immigrant took your job? “We’ll get back to you on that.” Seeking to build a mother in law suite on your own land? “No, no, no, that won’t do!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-there-are-so-few-people-actually-in-favor-of-big-government/773131.md?page=3)