# Why does it seem like women do less bad things than men? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 30, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443 "2016-11-30T03:51:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/101 "2018-02-27T13:12:04Z")
I was just rereading Massie’s “Dreadnought”, and there was a passage describing Queen Victoria’s letter to a top Cabinet official, in which she said she wished she was a man so she could kick Russia’s ass (paraphrasing slightly). The motive is there - means and opportunity are all that’s needed for women to do Bad Things as thoroughly as men (see also Margaret Thatcher, Indira Gandhi etc.). ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/102 "2018-02-27T16:25:13Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Figures I already posted once (about child murders in the USA) : > > Mother alone 32 % > Father alone 11 % > Both parents 21 % > Mother and another person (not the father) 16 % > Father and another person (not the mother) 1 % > Other family member 5 % > Foster family 6 % > Other acquaintance 6 % > Stranger 2 % > > So, the mother is involved in 69% of child murders, the father in only 33%, so that’s not exactly similar rates. And 81% of murdered children are killed by one or both of their parents, so even assuming that all child murders by a non-parent (other relatives, foster family members, acquaintances and strangers) are commited by men, children would still be killed more often by women than by men. And not only that, the criminal justice system seems oddly “forgiving” toward women who kill their own offspring. From [this article](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2002/03/when_parents_kill.html): > [@](#): > > A 1969 study by Dr. Phillip Resnick, the “father” of maternal filicide (the murder of a child by a parent), found that while mothers convicted of murdering their children were hospitalized 68 percent of the time and imprisoned 27 percent of the time, fathers convicted of killing their children were sentenced to prison or executed 72 percent of the time and hospitalized only 14 percent of the time. More recent British studies by P.T. D’Orban support these findings. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/103 "2018-02-27T16:50:31Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > And not only that, the criminal justice system seems oddly “forgiving” toward women who kill their own offspring. From [this article](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2002/03/when_parents_kill.html): Of course, it’s also possible that women who kill their children are in fact more likely to be mentally troubled as opposed to all-purpose ruthless bastards, as compared to men. My guess is it’s a combination of both. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/104 "2018-02-27T17:55:45Z")
There are lies, damned lies and statistics. The child murdering numbers are the last. What’s happening is that you’re looking at those numbers and then applying them to a preconception of ‘white, suburban, nuclear family with 2 kids whose mother hacks them up with an axe.’ The problem is that that vision of what a family is is outdated by decades and that version of what a child homicide is is simply a fiction. Part of the reason that more mothers kill their children is quite simply that more mothers live with their children- 1 in 3 children don’t live with their father. The other very, very important factor is that the vast, vast majority of these child deaths are infanticides taking place shortly after birth predominantly to unmarried women of color who gave birth in a non-hospital setting. In effect, they are late term abortions. Most of these infanticides if they had been done 24 hours earlier by a doctor would be legal abortions, because they waited an extra day and threw them in a dumpster instead of stabbing them through the brainstem, they are infanticides. The courts are typically ‘forgiving’ due to this fact. After the first week of life, a child is more likely to be killed by a male than by a female. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/105 "2018-02-27T18:02:24Z")
That sounds really angry but I’m not sure against whom. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/106 "2018-02-27T18:27:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That sounds really angry but I’m not sure against whom. What sounds angry? My post? I wasn’t angry when I wrote it. Just trying to shed light on the earlier numbers and why they show what they show. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/107 "2018-02-27T19:35:41Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The motive is there - means and opportunity are all that’s needed for women to do Bad Things as thoroughly as men (see also Margaret Thatcher, Indira Gandhi etc.). What Bad Things did Thatcher do? In the Falkland Islands War, it was Argentina (governed by men, if I recall correctly) that attacked and occupied the islands. Thatcher then sent British forces to kick the Argentine forces out. In regards to the IRA, they were a bunch of vicious terrorists who killed far more British civilians than ISIS ever has. Punching back at them was surely not a Bad Thing. Outside of those two episodes, which are minor on the scale of international affairs, she presided over one of most peaceful stretches in British history. ---
**Author:** ![Hiero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Hiero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiero)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/108 "2018-02-27T22:20:01Z")
We’re just fuckin’ stupid. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/109 "2018-02-28T01:34:25Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > … the vast, vast majority of these child deaths are infanticides taking place shortly after birth predominantly to unmarried women of color who gave birth in a non-hospital setting. In effect, they are late term abortions. Most of these infanticides if they had been done 24 hours earlier by a doctor would be legal abortions, because they waited an extra day and threw them in a dumpster instead of stabbing them through the brainstem, they are infanticides. The courts are typically ‘forgiving’ due to this fact. After the first week of life, a child is more likely to be killed by a male than by a female. Do you have a cite to support this claim? ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/110 "2018-02-28T03:16:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you have a cite to support this claim? [https://www.childtrends.org/indicators/infant-homicide/](https://www.childtrends.org/indicators/infant-homicide/) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/111 "2018-02-28T16:47:06Z")
Well, that establishes the _rate_, but your post appears to talk about the _number_, inasmuch as you said: > [@](#): > > …the vast, vast majority of these child deaths are infanticides taking place shortly after birth predominantly to unmarried women of color who gave birth in a non-hospital setting. Your cite gives a higher _rate_ among the black population, but because the white population greatly outnumbers the black population, the actual _number_ of deaths among the black population is much lower. The most recent year I can find stats for is 2014; for that year, there were 152 white infants murdered, and 84 black infants. [Cite](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr65/nvsr65_04.pdf), page 100, at the bottom, listed as “Assault (Homicide)”. So, not at all the “vast majority”, much less the “vast vast majority”. Also, third-trimester and post-viability abortions are outlawed in the overwhelming majority of states. So, this line: > [@](#): > > Most of these infanticides if they had been done 24 hours earlier by a doctor would be legal abortions, because they waited an extra day and threw them in a dumpster instead of stabbing them through the brainstem, they are infanticides. …is hogwash. ---
**Author:** ![Jane\_Smythe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@Jane\_Smythe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_Smythe)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/112 "2018-03-01T08:17:09Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > That’s in part because some behaviors which would not be tolerated in a younger man are tolerated in an old one, or at least met with lower consequences. > > An old man screaming “they should just stay where they were born!” is a racist old fuck but people say “maybe he has Alzheimer’s”. The same by a guy in his 20s gets the police called. > > An old man grabbing the cashier’s ass gets carefully removed from the premises; police will only be called if it is considered necessary to get him home (he appears disoriented, the storekeepers don’t know where he lives); if his family is known to the store, they will be called apologetically ‘please come get your grandfather and keep him out of here’. The same by a guy who doesn’t look like he may break if handled forcefully will, at the very least, get handled very forcefully and police is likely to be called on him (rather than ‘for’ him as with the disoriented-looking gramps). No, it’s about men committing actual serious crimes, that’s why men go to prison. Violent crime, robbery, burglery, assault, rape, murder. Also drug offenses. It has nothing to do with older men not being taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Roy\_Batty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Roy\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roy_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/113 "2018-03-02T14:14:03Z")
I’m not going to say that men don’t commit more violent crimes than women do. However, women _do_ commit crimes - violent and otherwise. Women just don’t get penalized to the extent men do - that’s a fact. There is obviously a lot of favoritism in the criminal justice system, which favors women & biased against men. This is one of the reasons less women are in prison. I’m a guy, but found this interesting video online by a woman who is a self-proclaimed feminist - and even she agrees with what I’m saying here: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/usq-IHT5ARc/maxresdefault.jpg "Criminal sentencing: Do women get off easy? | FACTUAL FEMINIST") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usq-IHT5ARc) Also, here is another article: > **[The Kiss Of The ‘Black Widow’: 17 Women Who Murdered Their Husbands (And...](https://thoughtcatalog.com/jim-goad/2016/01/kiss-of-the-black-widow-17-women-who-murdered-their-husbands-and-others-for-cash/)** > > The following 17 cases involve women who killed their lovers in order to inherit their wealth. Also, in many cases women will be sneakier about crime than men: > **[Woman accused of poisoning her lookalike with cheesecake to steal identity](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/01/russia-woman-cheesecake-poison-lookalike-steal-identity)** > > The suspect stole the victim’s passport, cash and other property after trying to make it look like a suicide attempt, authorities said ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/114 "2018-03-03T17:57:45Z")
[Fewer](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=155656&highlight=Sperm). ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/115 "2018-03-04T00:55:57Z")
> [@Roy\_Batty](#): > > I’m not going to say that men don’t commit more violent crimes than women do. However, women _do_ commit crimes - violent and otherwise. > > Women just don’t get penalized to the extent men do - that’s a fact. There is obviously a lot of favoritism in the criminal justice system, which favors women & biased against men. This is one of the reasons less women are in prison. One of the peculiar artifacts of patriarchal sexism is that “being good” and “being bad” are set up differently for the sexes: for girls, being good is actively assertive, holding one’s self up to a standard, and being bad is falling weakly into disrepute, to be pitied for it as well as being held in contempt. For boys, meanwhile, being BAD is actively assertive, being a badass, a wicked disrespectful disobeyer of rules, a miscreant; bad boys are “getting away with” stuff that they do, and they are envied even when they are punished, so there’s a tendency for punishments to escalate to overcome that bad boy aura. Meanwhile, good boys are assumed to be good for fear of punishment or fear of going against authority or whatever – it’s seen as a more passive state, you could even invoke a description of it as a “pussy-whipped” state if you go looking for it. I shouldn’t at this point have to issue a disclaimer, but I will: I’m citing the existence of this cultural belief-tendency, but I’m not endorsing it in any shape way fashion or form. ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/116 "2018-03-18T01:55:06Z")
FWIW, I have a high level of testosterone according to a recent hormone panel. I’m a lesbian and have very few stereotypically female interests and many typical male interests and it’s been that way all of my life. I’m far, far more adventurous, aggressive, and thrill-seeking than the majority of my heterosexual counterparts. I’d never claim to be fearless, but I have a high threshold for emotional arousal that some uber-masculine guys have. IMHO, testosterone is the key driver in what we label as masculine behaviors. Many trans men who take T report incredible changes in their thinking, behavior, and interests; this, perhaps, can give further insight into just how much our chemistry controls us. So, anecdotes aren’t stats and so on, just wanted to throw my thinking into the thread. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/117 "2018-03-18T03:14:11Z")
I, meanwhile, seem to have a normal male range dose of the stuff running around in my system. I have very few stereotypically male interests and many typical female interest and it’s been that way all my life, too. I’m pretty damn tough and resilient but so are lots of women. I suspect the physical differences, including the hormones, make a statistical difference in the populations as a whole; and that the populations as a whole do indeed differ more or less as the stereotypes about males and females say they do. But it’s a generalization and as with all generalizations there are exceptions; and there’s more variation among males (and among females) than there is between the two populations male and female, so there are plenty of outliers. ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/118 "2018-03-18T16:26:50Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I, meanwhile, seem to have a normal male range dose of the stuff running around in my system. I have very few stereotypically male interests and many typical female interest and it’s been that way all my life, too. I’m pretty damn tough and resilient but so are lots of women. > > I suspect the physical differences, including the hormones, make a statistical difference in the populations as a whole; and that the populations as a whole do indeed differ more or less as the stereotypes about males and females say they do. But it’s a generalization and as with all generalizations there are exceptions; and there’s more variation among males (and among females) than there is between the two populations male and female, so there are plenty of outliers. Yup, smart words. The intersections of nature/nurture are fascinating; after I posted here I was thinking about my upbringing and the pervasive sense that I was very different from the other ruffle-clad demure little Mormon girls. There were not any social rewards for being a butch little girl, but there certainly were social punishments aplenty. I think my drivers lean a lot toward genetics; few kids choose to be pariahs. I’m a product of polygamy as are many other Utah Mormons. Interestingly, there is an unusually high rate of homosexuality, especially high given the repressive/oppressive religiosity that saturates the culture. I’m hoping science turns an eye toward studying sexuality as it presents in a genetic pool with a high rate of interbreeding. U of Utah has done a fascinating study on diseases that occur at a high rate in Utah: [http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/science/utah/](http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/science/utah/) ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/119 "2018-03-19T17:27:41Z")
There are no doubt exceptions, but IMO, as far as a blanket answer goes, it’s testosterone, period. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443/120 "2018-03-20T12:41:06Z")
Well look at the recent [event with Katy Perry](http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/tv/ct-american-idol-katy-perry-flirting-20180319-story.html). Basically the 33 year old Perry made a 19 year old contestant on “American Idol” come over and kiss her on the lips when she found out he was from a conservative family and hadnt ever kissed a girl. Can you imagine a 33 year old man doing that to a 19 year old girl? Now the young man downplayed it but still, a 33 year old man would NEVER have been given such a pass. Where is the #MeToo for men? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-it-seem-like-women-do-less-bad-things-than-men/773443.md?page=7)