# Why does Japanese Cuisine (seem to) use no tomatoes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** food-cooking\ **Created:** [October 1, 2020, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967 "2020-10-01T11:46:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/61 "2021-01-04T15:52:34Z")
The distinction I’m making isn’t “fresh” vs. “dried”; it’s that the peppers referred to as chilis (or chiles) are usually hot, whereas the peppers used in Hungarian cuisine are usually not. For this reason no Hungarians, and no English-speaking people who regularly cook Hungarian cuisine, refer to powdered paprika as chili powder, nor to whole paprika peppers as chilis (even if the two fruits are botanically the same species). This would make about as much sense as referring to sauerkraut as fermented broccoli. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/62 "2021-01-04T16:48:59Z")
That’s not universally true; there are lots of semi-hot and not-hot peppers used frequently- Anaheims, Hatch, bells, Marconi, pimentos, and so on. The paprika pepper isn’t any different- it’s just a variety that originated in Hungary. It’s not dramatically different than any other pepper. And paprika is just powdered paprika chiles. Same thing as say… cayenne pepper, or powdered ancho pepper, or any other kind of chile that’s been powdered. They just happen to call it paprika in Hungary. And there are different types from hot to mild- you can’t really say that paprika is mild. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/63 "2021-01-04T16:59:48Z")
This whole tangent is turning into a hijack, but… > **[Arrabbiata sauce](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrabbiata_sauce)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Arrabbiata sauce, or sugo all'arrabbiata in Italian (arabbiata in Romanesco dialect), is a spicy sauce for pasta made from garlic, tomatoes, and dried red chili peppers cooked in olive oil. The sauce originates from the Lazio region, and particularly from the city of Rome. > Arrabbiata literally means "angry" in Italian; in Romanesco dialect the adjective arabbiato denotes a characteristic (in this case spiciness) pushed to excess. In Rome, in fact... ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/64 "2021-01-04T17:11:03Z")
If you link to an article that mentions Marco Ferreri’s _La Grande Bouffe_ the hijack is forgiven. - the OP - BTW: the difference between tomatos and peppers is IMO smaller than between apples and pears, botanically speaking. What’s the difference? The former have a wet endocarp, the latter a dry one, the rest seems functionally equivalent to me. So I might as well have asked why Japanese Cuisine uses chillies/paprika/peppers so sparingly. Thanks for all the interesting attempts at an answer so far! I don’t feel qualified to coment much, but I read with interest. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/65 "2021-01-04T17:35:13Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > I can’t think of any Hungarian dishes that contain chiles. Are you thinking of paprika? Paprika is a type of chile pepper. It’s a type of Capsicum annum. I have seen them grown in Szeged and Kalocsa. You see wreaths of them around the houses of the villages in those areas during early fall. The sweet kind is made by removing the seeds. The hot kind is made with the seeds put back in. And there are varieties in the middle (bitter-sharp), and a whole mess of other kinds. There’s at least a half dozen different designations of paprika at the local markets. I can think of seven: special, mild, delicatess, sweet, semisweet, rose, and hot, plus you have some smoked varieties as well. The hot ones (depending on brand) can get to around chile arbol levels of heat, somewhere approaching medium-hot. But the pepper itself is absolutely a chile pepper. At any rate, many other chiles are grown in Hungary. There is one that goes by the name magyar erõs paprika (“Hungarian strong”), which is similar to perhaps an anaheim or New Mexico chile. There is bogyiszloi, which is spicier, and looks a bit like a bigger version of a fresno pepper with pale yellow-green skin. There is also the cherry pepper, which is often dried and used at the table to spice up food. It can also be found pickled. There is almapaprika, which is a mildly spicy pepper that is usually served pickled (and my favorite accompaniment to a Hungarian stew.) Yes, most Hungarians do not cook their dishes to hot levels. But you can certainly find stuff I would consider spicy. Fish soup, for example, tends to be served on the spicy side. And with any of the typical dishes, you will usually find a jar of Erós Pista (“Stong Steve” – a hot pepper paste similar to sambal oelek) or dried hot chili peppers for you to crumble over your dish as you see fit. But go to the countryside, and the food does start trending spicy. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/66 "2021-01-04T18:46:15Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > The sweet kind is made by removing the seeds. The hot kind is made with the seeds put back in. OK, further research shows that this, indeed, was the way it originally happened, thanks to the Palfy brothers and their invention of a machine that separated the veins and seeds from the outer fruit and then the blender could mix amounts of the two for the desired spice level, but, soon after, a way was also developed for milder and milder fruits from crossbreeding over time. ---
**Author:** ![bmoak1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@bmoak1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak1)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/67 "2021-01-06T02:15:50Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > In contrast, I saw corn (American maize) pretty often. I bought a barbecued corn-on-the-cob from a street vendor, and saw it for sale pretty often. (“Stuff on sticks” seems pretty common as street food, and the cob was on a stick, like all the other stuff.) I saw corn kernels with the other veggies at a buffet place. Corn is common in Japan. Grilled corn-on-the-cob basted in soy sauce is a common street vendor food, and for some reason, the Japanese like to add corn kernels to dishes that we would find strange, such as pizza, tossed salads, and potato salad. However, the most common corn dish is corn soup (more like a corn chowder or potage). If you go to a restaurant that serves youshoku dishes (“Western” dishes that have been adapted and mutated, sometimes more than a century ago, into something unknown in the west.), if there is a side soup, it will almost always be corn soup. It is so common that you can buy it in supermarkets or convenience stores in milk cartons, or even from a vending machine. (Japan has vending machines that dispense heated cans.) ---
**Author:** ![bmoak1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@bmoak1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak1)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/68 "2021-01-06T05:02:23Z")
> [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > Sweet potatoes have a long history in both China and Japan, so what you say is correct, but the second part of my post referred to the potatoes that we know. They are widely available in Japan today, but they are a comparatively recent introduction. You confused me by using the word imo, which is used in Japan to describe all different types of edible tubers. While everyone knows that Yaki-imo refers to roast sweet potatoes, but sweet potatoes are satsuma-imo (named after the historical domain of Satsuma in Kyushu, which dominated trade with Okinawa and was the first place in Japan to cultivate sweet potatoes). Western potatoes are jaga-imo. Sato-imo is taro. Yama-imo and naga-imo (grated to make tororo) are yam-like tubers. In any event, potatoes are certainly used more than just in French fries in Japan. Niku-jaga (literally “meat and potatoes”. is a very common home cooking dish, as is potatoes au gratin. Every convenience store and grocery store will have a selection of croquettes kept under warming lamps. ---
**Author:** ![icon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@icon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/icon)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/69 "2021-01-06T13:44:27Z")
In regards to Tomatoes, one of the interesting bits of Japanese cuisine is the dishes that use Ketchup (not Tomato Sauce) as an ingredient, not a condiment as we typically do in the west. Probably the most famous version of this is in their Spaghetti Napolitan, although the original did use tomato puree, that being expensive, the version that took root in Japan used/uses ketchup. > **[Recipe: Spaghetti Napolitan](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2015/01/20/food/spaghetti-napolitan-japans-unique-take-pasta/)** > > On Aug. 30, 1945, newly appointed Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers Gen. Douglas MacArthur landed at Atsugi Airport in Yokohama and headed straight t And of course you can’t talk about ketchup use in Japan without mentioning omurice: > **[Omurice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omurice)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Omurice or omu-rice (オムライス, Omu-raisu) is a Japanese dish consisting of an omelette made with fried rice and thin, fried scrambled eggs, usually topped with ketchup. It is a popular dish also commonly cooked at home. Children in particular enjoy omurice. It is often featured in Japan's version of a children's meal, okosama-ranchi (お子様ランチ). > With omu and raisu being derived from the Japanese pronunciation of the French word omelette and the English... So there is quite a bit of indirect use of Tomatoes in modern Japanese cuisine. `//i\\` ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/70 "2021-01-06T14:22:41Z")
The ketchup thing makes sense. It’s the sort of thing (like canned corn, spam, and powdered eggs) that the US shipped freighter-loads of to famished countries like Japan after WWII. There’s some sort of nostalgic fondness that extends through generations with foods like that. ---
**Author:** ![bmoak1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@bmoak1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak1)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/71 "2021-01-09T21:41:36Z")
I was going to post about spaghetti napolitan and omu-raice, but you beat me to it and inserted links (haven’t figured out to do that). There’s a third common fusion dish that uses ketchup, but it’s not western fusion, it’s a Chinese fusion dish called ebi-chili (shrimp in chili sauce). It’s an adaptation of a Szechuan dish, but in Japan heat of that chili sauce is cut with ketchup. All three of these dishes are common home-cooked dishes. They are also very common dishes in the Japanese equivalent of a diner, but unless you’re in a big city like NY or LA that has a Japanese population to cater to, you wan’t see them in Japanese restaurants in the states. ---
**Author:** ![bmoak1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@bmoak1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak1)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/72 "2021-01-09T22:50:51Z")
There are plenty of vegetables that weren’t introduced to Japan until after the country opened up that have gone on to widespread use: potatoes, corn, green peppers, and onions for starters. As said above, the most common uses for tomatoes in the US (outside of processing for sauce, salsa, etc) are salads, sandwiches, and tomato soup. Corn soup is the western soup of choice in Japan, so cross off tomato soup. Every convenience store in Japan has an array of sandwiches, all on fluffy white bread, but most Japanese sandwiches are single-filling (ham, egg salad, tuna salad, pork cutlet, etc) and don’t have extras like lettuce and tomato in them. The coffeeshop/diner on the first floor of my apartment building had a ham sandwich on the menu and a cheese sandwich on the menu, but not a ham-and-cheese sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/73 "2021-01-09T22:54:29Z")
Don’t underestimate the popularity of ketchup. In recent years, companies have identified over fifty characteristics of food that make it delicious. They have spent a lot of money and done research to hit the optimal range of mouthfeel or saltiness or everything else. The reason kids and most adults like ketchup is it is almost a perfect food. If Cecil does not add it to his Chicago hot dogs so be it. **Cecil** : "This is like asking why Leonardo didn’t paint the Mona Lisa on black velvet. Ketchup is destructive of all that is right and just about a properly assembled hot dog…”, a “saviour of garbage”. Obama agrees, as does the founder of Vienna Beef. ---
**Author:** ![bmoak1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@bmoak1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak1)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/74 "2021-01-09T23:03:53Z")
That leaves salads. I’m a big tossed salad guy, but I didn’t make a lot of salads when I lived in Japan. It’s been close to twenty years since I lived in Japan. but I remember tomatoes (especially non-cherry), and lettuce (especially non-iceberg) as being expensive. The coffeeshop/diner I mentioned above served a side salad with certain dishes. It consisted of a few leaves of iceberg lettuce but was mostly shredded cabbage, with a slice or two or carrot and cucumber plus a cherry tomato, and something like French dressing as the only option. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/75 "2021-01-09T23:17:37Z")
> [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](#): > > And the tomatoes they do use (mostly in spicy soups & salads) tend to be underripe, sometimes verging on green with a slight tinge of red. This has been my experience as well. > [@](#): > > Maybe ripes tomatoes just don’t stay viable very long in the tropics so the markets don’t stock them. I suspect it’s something like this. Japan doesn’t have a ton of arable land. The land they do have tends to be dominated by commodities and traditional staples (rice, daikon radish, kabocha pumpkin, sweet potatoes, corn and beef). I know Chiba produces some tomatoes but I don’t think it’s widespread at all. IIRC, lots of western produce such as tomatoes were never really commonplace in Japan until the early 60’s. They really like their traditional foods, so I guess there hasn’t been enough time for tomatoes to become widespread. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/76 "2021-01-09T23:47:10Z")
> [@icon](#): > > And of course you can’t talk about ketchup use in Japan without mentioning omurice: The ONE thing I thought I could contribute, and you beat me to it! I am definitely making omurice tomorrow… ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/77 "2021-01-10T13:06:59Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > traditional staples (rice, daikon radish, kabocha pumpkin, sweet potatoes, corn and beef) Why corn and not tomato, though? I thought that was the question of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/78 "2021-01-10T13:22:32Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Why corn and not tomato, though? I thought that was the question of the thread. I saw a ton of cornfields when I lived up there and I’m not sure why. I always thought it was because corn is a versatile input commodity for processed junk food, which Japanese do love. Tomatoes are more niche. But now that I think of it, I lived in Hokkaido where there’s a ton of dairy farming, so it may have just been silage for the animals. I’m not sure. Lots of corn and cattle up there, though. Hokkaido is like Wisconsin. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/79 "2021-01-10T13:53:45Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > I am definitely making omurice tomorrow… I followed links to this [YouTube on cooking omurice](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eeeTvatu6fk), and while I do not care for felines, I will mention that it features what might be the world’s best cat. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967/80 "2021-01-10T14:20:17Z")
Further research turns up the info that cherry tomatoes are popular snack items in Japan. For perspective: Japan’s tomato crop last year was projected to be about 438,000 metric tons, compared to 92,000 metric tons in Great Britain. Apparently the Japanese climate isn’t optimal for tomato growing so they’re increasing use of hydroponic techniques. [https://www.hortidaily.com/article/6019571/record-breaking-tomato-yields-at-japanese-igh-project/](https://www.hortidaily.com/article/6019571/record-breaking-tomato-yields-at-japanese-igh-project/) My 2021 Asian seed catalog proudly trumpets the availability in the West of the Momotaro Orange tomato, which I might be tempted to try, except that in my experience tomatoes that aren’t red or “black” tend to be too mild/bland for my taste. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-japanese-cuisine-seem-to-use-no-tomatoes/921967.md?page=5)