# Why does McCain keep saying "I know how to win wars?" What war has he ever won? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2008, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811 "2008-07-26T02:27:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/21 "2008-07-26T15:06:35Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] It’s a fucking campaign slogan. How does Obama know how to “change” Washington? [/QUOTE] He’s a parent. He knows that when something is full of shit it’s time to change it. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/22 "2008-07-26T15:35:57Z")
I guess some Presidential candidates can legitimately claim to know how to win a war: Washington Jackson Grant Eisenhower Perhaps Teddy Roosevelt Others may have honorable military records but I don’t see how that translates into knowing how to win a war. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/23 "2008-07-26T15:42:38Z")
[QUOTE=Bearflag70] I guess some Presidential candidates can legitimately claim to know how to win a war: Washington Jackson Grant Eisenhower Perhaps Teddy Roosevelt Others may have honorable military records but I don’t see how that translates into knowing how to win a war. [/QUOTE] Did Lincoln not make the list because he’s a lawyer from Illinois? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/24 "2008-07-26T16:00:42Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] McCain’s claim is not just that he has military service, but that he “Knows how to win wars.” He has never won a war, so it’s a stupid thing for him to say. Having been a POW in Vietnam does not mean he knows how to win wars. [/QUOTE] Last night one member of the dinner party suggested tht it should be pointed out that McCain spent 5-1/2 years “sitting on his ass,” in Hoa Lo rather than fighting in the war. 😉 [QUOTE=Bearflag70] I guess some Presidential candidates can legitimately claim to know how to win a war: Washington Jackson Grant Eisenhower Perhaps Teddy Roosevelt Others may have honorable military records but I don’t see how that translates into knowing how to win a war. [/QUOTE] You forgot Kennedy and George H.W. Bush. On the other hand, neither Abraham Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson, or Franklin D. Roosevelt–presidents who oversaw the three largest wars this nation has been involved in–had any military service, and Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon, while serving in the Navy during WWII, never saw combat (although Johnson was controversially awarded a Silver Star for being an observer in a combat zone). In short, there is no empirical basis for the claim that executives with military combat experience are better wartime Presidents for it. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/25 "2008-07-26T16:04:12Z")
[QUOTE=Attack from the 3rd dimension] Did Lincoln not make the list because he’s a lawyer from Illinois? [/QUOTE] I think Lincoln didn’t make the list because he never ended a war. I’m sure it was on his to-do list, but assassins don’t always read those closely before offing national leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/26 "2008-07-26T16:15:13Z")
[QUOTE=Dr. Drake] I think Lincoln didn’t make the list because he never ended a war. I’m sure it was on his to-do list, but assassins don’t always read those closely before offing national leaders. [/QUOTE] Uhhhh, might want to double check your facts. ---
**Author:** ![threeorange](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@threeorange](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threeorange)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/27 "2008-07-26T16:17:34Z")
[QUOTE=Dr. Drake] I think Lincoln didn’t make the list because he never ended a war. I’m sure it was on his to-do list, but assassins don’t always read those closely before offing national leaders. [/QUOTE] Actually, Lincoln wasn’t assassinated until five days after the war ended. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/28 "2008-07-26T16:18:57Z")
Let’s not forget America’s great military truimphs agains Grenada and Panama. Oh yeah, and Gulf War I, under Bush Sr. I’m sure McCain won those, somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/29 "2008-07-26T16:24:23Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] Last night one member of the dinner party suggested tht it should be pointed out that McCain spent 5-1/2 years “sitting on his ass,” in Hoa Lo rather than fighting in the war. 😉 You forgot Kennedy and George H.W. Bush. On the other hand, neither Abraham Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson, or Franklin D. Roosevelt–presidents who oversaw the three largest wars this nation has been involved in–had any military service, and Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon, while serving in the Navy during WWII, never saw combat (although Johnson was controversially awarded a Silver Star for being an observer in a combat zone). In short, there is no empirical basis for the claim that executives with military combat experience are better wartime Presidents for it. Stranger [/QUOTE] There is a difference between GHW Bush or Kennedy’s service during war - as middle managers - and Jackson or Grant’s or Washington’s - as Generals. But Jackson and Grant are great examples of why being able to “win a war” doesn’t necessarily translate into being a good President. Eisenhower is a good example of someone who was able to use his experience as a leader in war to become a statesman. Service to your country in the armed forces does not mean you know “how to win a war” - it may mean you know “how to fight in a war” - but that’s a little like me saying “years of service in corporations has made me confident I can raise General Motor’s stock price.” ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/30 "2008-07-26T16:26:55Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] Last night one member of the dinner party . . . [/QUOTE] How do I register?! ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/31 "2008-07-26T16:40:21Z")
The point behind singling out those four men: Washington, Jackson, Grant, and Eisenhower, was, I think, that they had exemplified their ability to successfully prosecute a war to a win as general officers **prior to** becoming President. Certainly Lincoln, Polk, Wilson, etc. were able to lead effectively as wartime Presidents – but the criterion for singling out those four (and possibly TR) was effective management of a successful war effort as an element of their why-I-should-be-President résumé. Using those criteria, however, both parties should be starting draft-Colin-Powell campaigns. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/32 "2008-07-26T18:39:41Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] Uhhhh, might want to double check your facts. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=threeorange] [something similar] [/QUOTE] Can I blame the American educational system? \ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/33 "2008-07-26T19:12:56Z")
[QUOTE=An Arky] Cheney’s still going around saying Iraq was in part behind 9/11. [/QUOTE] “Still”, as in when? ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/34 "2008-07-26T20:00:10Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] The point behind singling out those four men: Washington, Jackson, Grant, and Eisenhower, was, I think, that they had exemplified their ability to successfully prosecute a war to a win as general officers **prior to** becoming President. Certainly Lincoln, Polk, Wilson, etc. were able to lead effectively as wartime Presidents – but the criterion for singling out those four (and possibly TR) was effective management of a successful war effort as an element of their why-I-should-be-President résumé. Using those criteria, however, both parties should be starting draft-Colin-Powell campaigns. [/QUOTE] I am no historian, so correct me if I am wrong, but here is a what I see based upon a skimming of Wiki… Presidential candidates who, based upon prior victory in war-time military strategy and leadership, may have been able to make an argument to be elected President based upon a claim of “knowing how to win a war” as a result of that military experience: Strong Argument Washington Jackson Taylor Grant Eisenhower Decent Argument Pierce Hayes Garfield Harrison TR Weak Argument Monroe Harrison McKinley Truman JFK LBJ Nixon Ford Carter Reagan Bush 41 Bush 43 I would put McCain on the “Weak” list. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/35 "2008-07-26T20:22:21Z")
McCain is a liar, and the father of lies. When he lies it is perfectly natural because he hates the truth. His tongue is like Beelzebub’s flaccid penis, worming its way into the rotted holes of altered reality, depositing pus from its running sores in order to poison the minds of the troglodytes who follow him. When he speaks, his words are nothing more than stinking vapors from the bacteria of his own bowel infarctions. He is to be believed only by demons and idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/36 "2008-07-26T20:25:45Z")
McCain is Satan. And it’s not even August yet. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/37 "2008-07-26T20:27:56Z")
How did Jack Chick get a hold of Liberal’s account information? And how did he confuse Obama and McCain? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/38 "2008-07-26T20:31:43Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] McCain is Satan. And it’s not even August yet. [/QUOTE] He’s more Satan’s bumbling henchman, Beelzetwit. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/39 "2008-07-26T21:33:18Z")
McCain isn’t even making sense on military policy. I heard a snippet on NPR this morning. McCain chides Obama, saying Obama opposed the surge in Iraq and is now supporting more troops (a “surge”, according to McCain) in Afghanistan, implying that Obama doesn’t know what he wants. Hell, even **I** know that the situations in Iraq and Afghanistan aren’t the same. And aren’t there about three times as many troops in Iraq as in Afghanistan? I don’t think McCain really wants to be President. He exhibits no energy or enthusiasm. And making speeches in US cities named London and Berlin while Obama was in Europe – that was just silly. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/40 "2008-07-26T21:54:07Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] McCain is a liar, and the father of lies. When he lies it is perfectly natural because he hates the truth. His tongue is like Beelzebub’s flaccid penis, worming its way into the rotted holes of altered reality, depositing pus from its running sores in order to poison the minds of the troglodytes who follow him. When he speaks, his words are nothing more than stinking vapors from the bacteria of his own bowel infarctions. He is to be believed only by demons and idiots. [/QUOTE] But he still falls short of being “the fucking beast from Revelations”, huh? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811.md?page=3)