# Why does McCain keep saying "I know how to win wars?" What war has he ever won? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2008, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811 "2008-07-26T02:27:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/101 "2008-07-28T18:38:53Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I was backing you up, not disagreeing with you. [/QUOTE] I wasn’t speaking to you. There were a couple of other people who pointed out that if you look at Obama’s statement in a dark room, squinting through a kalidescope, it might appear that he said something like “I will invade Pakistan”, even though he didn’t. Sorry for the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/102 "2008-07-28T19:03:29Z")
I’m not worried about Obama invading Pakistan, and yeah, I agree that it’s distorting his statement to say he would. Having said that, I don’t see McCain’s Afghanistan policy as being significantly different from OBama’s at this point. Both talk about sending more troops there. Don’t be too complacent, though, about the lack of potential for acivil war there, just as there is in Iraq. The country may not be divided much on religious fault lines, but it is very much divided along ethnic fault lines. It’s a much more difficult country than Iraq to manage from a central government due to its mountainous terrain. And… there’s no oil money to hand out as bribes to keep the peace. One has to wonder at what point does the US lose its resolve to keep fighting in Afghanistan, and whether that would be a good or a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/103 "2008-07-30T00:49:18Z")
But, that means there’s little ethnic cleansing we have to abet there, no separations we have to enforce, as has been the case in Iraq. No need to create the fiction of a unified country there, since it’s already a fiction. And that was part of Bush’s legacy - he has held onto the same tired view that his father held, that a closed line on a map and a name with a title on it in the largest city constitutes a nation and a leader. “We” didn’t defeat the Taliban there, we provided the military force for one alliance of ethnic tribes to defeat others that were under their influence, driving them all the way out of Kabul. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/104 "2008-07-30T01:53:03Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] > [@](#): > > So says your girlfriend Obama. OK folks, we’re debating someone who can only win by playing the MoDo “all Dem men are women, all Dem women are men” card. **Sam** , you’ve jumped the shark. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/105 "2008-07-30T05:11:00Z")
Nah, I was making an oh-so-subtle satirical comment on the excessive Obama-love I’ve been reading these days. [For example:](http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/07/barack_obama_is_your_new_workout_partner) > [@](#): > > I worked out with Obama! > He curled 32 kilo dumbbells next to me > +++ Barack is top fit +++ > He didn’t sweat at all > > By Judith Bonesky > > As thousands waited at the Sieges Saule monument in Berlin to hear Obama’s sensational speech, a BILD reporter met Barack all alone – in the gym! Here’s the incredible account of Judith Bonesky’s meeting… > > "IHe goes and picks up a pair of 16 kilo weights and starts curling them with his left and right arms, 30 repetitions on each side. Then, amazingly, he picks up the 32 kilo weights! Very slowly he lifts them, first 10 curls with his right, then 10 with his left. He breathes deeply in and out and takes a sip of water from his 0,5 litre Evian bottle. > Shortly before five o’clock Obama comes over and sits directly next to my cross-trainer on the mat. First he does 10 sit-ups, then stretches. Then he looks at his watch and says to his bodyguard: “It’s time, let’s go.” Quickly I ask: “Mr. Obama, could I take a photo?”. “Of course!” he answers, before asking my name and coming over to stand next to me. > > “My name’s Judith” I reply. “I’m Barack Obama, nice to meet you!” he says, and puts his arm across my shoulder. I put my arm around his hip – wow, he didn’t even sweat! WHAT A MAN!" ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/106 "2008-07-30T05:47:44Z")
Funny, I’d always thought of **Liberal** as a pretty butch sort of guy, you know, swarthy, rugged, thick beard covering a Heisenberg dueling scar. Or maybe not… ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/107 "2008-07-30T08:16:38Z")
I know it was “only” an Indian war, and it was only a few months, but surely Lincoln’s service in the Blackhawk war (including as elected captain of one Illinois regiment) qualifies him for one of these lists? [QUOTE=Bearflag70] I am no historian, so correct me if I am wrong, but here is a what I see based upon a skimming of Wiki… Presidential candidates who, based upon prior victory in war-time military strategy and leadership, may have been able to make an argument to be elected President based upon a claim of “knowing how to win a war” as a result of that military experience: Strong Argument Washington Jackson Taylor Grant Eisenhower Decent Argument Pierce Hayes Garfield Harrison TR Weak Argument Monroe Harrison McKinley Truman JFK LBJ Nixon Ford Carter Reagan Bush 41 Bush 43 I would put McCain on the “Weak” list. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/108 "2008-07-30T08:33:19Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] Perhaps he has some insight that Obama doesn’t because he’s an owner of Silver Stars, Bronze Stars, Purple Hearts, Distinguished Flying Crosses, a War College graduate, a 22-year Navy vet (hmm…perhaps he did more than be captured in those 22 years, no?), holds a Master’s in National Security Strategy and has logged 21 years as a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee… [/QUOTE] All activities for bears of very little brain. Look at the results for confirmation. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/109 "2008-07-30T08:34:28Z")
[QUOTE=Gala Matrix Fire] I want to know why the word _peace_ is painted on John McCain’s campaign plane. He wants to bomb Iran, he wants to keep US troops fighting in Iraq for another century…who the hell believes that anything he stands for will lead to peace in any way? Who’s he trying to fool? Why does it say _peace_ on his plane?! [/QUOTE] Orwell. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/110 "2008-07-30T08:59:37Z")
[QUOTE=An Arky] Cheney’s still going around saying Iraq was in part behind 9/11. It’s the repeat-bullshit-ad-infinitum strategy, and it works for the people who buy it in the marketplace of ideas. He wouldn’t sell it if nobody was buying it. There’s a not insignificant number of people who will believe McCain just because he’s their sumbitch… [/QUOTE] You’re are presuming cognition where the evidence suggests otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/111 "2008-07-30T10:59:45Z")
[QUOTE=Gala Matrix Fire] I want to know why the word _peace_ is painted on John McCain’s campaign plane. He wants to bomb Iran, he wants to keep US troops fighting in Iraq for another century…who the hell believes that anything he stands for will lead to peace in any way? Who’s he trying to fool? Why does it say _peace_ on his plane?! [/QUOTE] Death is peaceful. ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/112 "2008-07-30T12:08:09Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I’m not worried about Obama invading Pakistan, and yeah, I agree that it’s distorting his statement to say he would. Having said that, I don’t see McCain’s Afghanistan policy as being significantly different from OBama’s at this point. Both talk about sending more troops there. [/QUOTE] That’s a very fair question. IMO, it hinges on Iraq and any differences there. If the troop level in Iraq isn’t drawn down significantly, then no troops actually exist to be sent to Afghanistan. Obama is planning to significantly decrease our troops in Iraq. I’ll simply say it’s unclear that McCain is planning to do so to the same extent. So where does he get the soldiers to send to Afghanistan? I see the same dynamic with their economic plans. Both of them announce plans that spend far more than any additional revenues/savings they have. So they’re just lying and hoping money magically appears to help them out. But with that said, McCains magic is roughly three times bigger than Obamas. (Hmm… that’s a good slogan. McCain: Three times the magic as Obama.) ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/113 "2008-07-30T12:11:36Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] Death is peaceful. [/QUOTE] It’s the getting there that is stressful! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/114 "2008-07-30T14:34:36Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] Nah, I was making an oh-so-subtle satirical comment on the excessive Obama-love I’ve been reading these days. [For example:](http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/07/barack_obama_is_your_new_workout_partner) [/QUOTE] Yeah, I’m sure there’s some of that out there. WTF does this have to do with _this_ debate, here on the Dope? I suppose I could precede every mention of McCain with words like ‘senile’ or ‘angry’ or ‘nutcase’ or something, but it’s not going to make my arguments any stronger, and would rather be a red flag that I wasn’t debating in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/115 "2008-07-30T15:29:21Z")
[QUOTE=Nametag] I know it was “only” an Indian war, and it was only a few months, but surely Lincoln’s service in the Blackhawk war (including as elected captain of one Illinois regiment) qualifies him for one of these lists? [/QUOTE] Lincoln’s enlistment lasted three weeks and he never saw combat. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/116 "2008-07-30T15:54:25Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] All activities for bears of very little brain. Look at the results for confirmation. [/QUOTE] Yeah, because everyone knows that getting a Master’s Degree in a complicated subject like National Security Strategy is for people without brains…same goes for being on the Armed Services Committee, or being an officer in the Navy for over 20 years. Only stupid people can do that! :rolleyes: I feel the need to point out that I am not necessarily for McCain nor against Obama…but I am against McCain being portrayed as something he isn’t, which is stupid, or somehow incapable of being a leader. He already HAS been a leader(he is CURRENTLY a leader as a US Senator), on many levels, and is an eductaed man. But, he is OLD and prone to misspeaking and gaffes of that ilk that make him unattractive to me, because I’m not really sure if he’s fit to be President if I can’t really grasp what his actual positions are because he may not know as he may be going Ronnie Reagan on us. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/117 "2008-07-30T16:38:47Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] Nah, I was making an oh-so-subtle satirical comment on the excessive Obama-love I’ve been reading these days…] [/QUOTE] By the way, good point, **Sam**. We should all be on guard against excessive partisan enthusiasm, like wildly exaggeratng the prescience and intelligence of our preferred candidate. Your example is a beacon to us all. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/118 "2008-07-30T17:08:52Z")
I love how the Republicans are desperately trying to spin Obama’s popularity as a negative. They would KILL to have a candidate who could pull that kind of tail. The pictures alone are killing them. Even the latest McCain attack ad features shots of Obama speaking to huge enthusiastic crowds and sinking a 3 while playing basketball with the troops. Meanwhile, their own guy is getting a growth removed from his face and uncomfortably holding hands with the Dalai Lama. Somehow, all this is supposed to be bad for Obama. His popularity is “scary,” and “like Hitler” (the Hitler association was actually made by Fox News when Obama gave his Berlin speech). Those are some awfully sour grapes the Republicans are sucking on right now. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/119 "2008-07-30T18:24:47Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] Yeah, because everyone knows that getting a Master’s Degree in a complicated subject like National Security Strategy is for people without brains…same goes for being on the Armed Services Committee, or being an officer in the Navy for over 20 years. Only stupid people can do that! :rolleyes: [/quote] The fact is, a _lot_ of stupid people have been on the Armed Services Committee. Brains help, but aren’t a requirement. And all that other stuff was a long time ago. He doesn’t seem to understand strategy _now_. Like it or not, Iraq doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Obama has been able to explain how his plans for Iraq fit into an overall strategy for that part of the world. McCain hasn’t, as best as I can tell. And that’s true across the board. The pieces of McCain’s campaign don’t fit together. He actually does have a proposal that would have been a decent climate change bill a few years back. But now he’s against increasing electricity costs, and wants to lower gasoline costs. How do you slow global warming if you keep petroleum cheap, and do the same for electricity, regardless of the source? IOW, the evidence that McCain is capable of thinking strategically _now_ is sorely lacking. > [@](#): > > he is CURRENTLY a leader as a US Senator How’s he led within that body? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811/120 "2008-07-30T18:28:41Z")
[QUOTE=muttrox] That’s a very fair question. IMO, it hinges on Iraq and any differences there. If the troop level in Iraq isn’t drawn down significantly, then no troops actually exist to be sent to Afghanistan. [/QUOTE] I don’t think that is correct. We just rotated 3 brigades out of Iraq that we did not replace. That’s exactly the number that Obama is talking about sending to Afghanistan. But there are other options out there, too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-mccain-keep-saying-i-know-how-to-win-wars-what-war-has-he-ever-won/457811.md?page=7)