# Why does Nintendo hate its fans so much? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 3, 2011, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193 "2011-01-03T04:04:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/61 "2011-01-04T22:35:13Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > What a ridiculous strawman. Don’t look at me, I didn’t claim Nintendo’s holding back the future of gaming. Graphics are nice, but gameplay trumps it every time. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/62 "2011-01-04T22:48:55Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Don’t look at me, I didn’t claim Nintendo’s holding back the future of gaming. > > Graphics are nice, but gameplay trumps it every time. I dunno. We’re reaching the point of the thread where Nintendo’s capable defenders start going overboard and making strawmen arguments and start undermining their point, just because one person made a ridiculous statement. I happen to get a lot of enjoyment out of BOTH excellent gameplay \*and \*graphics/audio. The current argument is starting to sound more like “you can have one or the other, but you can’t have both”. I just plugged Uncharted 2 in for the first time this weekend, and I have to STRONGLY disagree with that. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/63 "2011-01-04T23:00:17Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I dunno. We’re reaching the point of the thread where Nintendo’s capable defenders start going overboard and making strawmen arguments and start undermining their point, just because one person made a ridiculous statement. How many Nintendo fans have made ridiculous statements, exactly? Seems like an easy way to dismiss everyone who disagrees in one fell swoop. And certainly none were on par with “Nintendo regressed the industry by 10 years.” > [@Munch](#): > > I happen to get a lot of enjoyment out of BOTH excellent gameplay \*and \*graphics/audio. The current argument is starting to sound more like “you can have one or the other, but you can’t have both”. No one argued that. Many are arguing you don’t need HD to have a beautiful looking game. I love Mario Galaxy, and I also love how it looks. Neither are an exclusive function of HD. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/64 "2011-01-04T23:01:47Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I dunno. We’re reaching the point of the thread where Nintendo’s capable defenders start going overboard and making strawmen arguments and start undermining their point, just because one person made a ridiculous statement. I happen to get a lot of enjoyment out of BOTH excellent gameplay \*and \*graphics/audio. The current argument is starting to sound more like “you can have one or the other, but you can’t have both”. > > I just plugged Uncharted 2 in for the first time this weekend, and I have to STRONGLY disagree with that. It’s not that cool graphics aren’t cool, it’s that - to me - they tend not to be worth it. They cost more (from $10 to $55 more) and they run on more expensive machines. They also in my experience tend to trade that cutting-edge look for fun a lot of times. Now Halo 1, there’s a counter-example of a game that had state of the art graphics and excellent gameplay. It was an exception, though. Not the rule. Raise the standards of gameplay, replay value, and fun factor, and then maybe I’ll run out of other things to worry about and start bitching about graphics. Until then, I’m not interested. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/65 "2011-01-04T23:17:18Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > The current argument is starting to sound more like “you can have one or the other, but you can’t have both”. No, it’s more like “If I had to pick one or the other.” A developer can’t always focus on all areas of a game due to budget or time constraints. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/66 "2011-01-04T23:19:35Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > How many Nintendo fans have made ridiculous statements, exactly? I haven’t claimed any have. > [@](#): > > No one argued that. Sure they have. Bosstone’s “If the future of gaming is pure graphics…” and Cisco’s dismissive Get Smart analogy steer the direction of the thread right into those rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/67 "2011-01-04T23:20:52Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Sure they have. Bosstone’s “If the future of gaming is pure graphics…” and Cisco’s dismissive Get Smart analogy steer the direction of the thread right into those rocks. Again, 'twas not me who originally used that phrase to describe the lack of HD graphics. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/68 "2011-01-04T23:24:37Z")
And I’m not the one who brought up black and white. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/69 "2011-01-04T23:25:05Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Now Halo 1, there’s a counter-example of a game that had state of the art graphics and excellent gameplay. It was an exception, though. Not the rule. > > Raise the standards of gameplay, replay value, and fun factor, and then maybe I’ll run out of other things to worry about and start bitching about graphics. Until then, I’m not interested. The rule isn’t “shitty gameplay for good graphics” in video games this generation. It’s “shitty gameplay”, period. But that’s merely a function of quantity of titles than anything else. > [@Bosstone](#): > > No, it’s more like “If I had to pick one or the other.” A developer can’t always focus on all areas of a game due to budget or time constraints. For Nintendo, that choice has already been made. Yes - a lot of games still look really good. But HD frankly wouldn’t be that much of a stretch or burden (if any), as we’ve already seen with the Dolphin emulator. There’s no “can’t always”, there’s simply “can’t”, while there are plenty of titles on the other consoles that DO. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/70 "2011-01-04T23:26:45Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > And I’m not the one who brought up black and white. Huh? If your Get Smart analogy was a refutation of the bogus B&W:color::SD:HD argument, you failed. (Get Smart was in color.) ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/71 "2011-01-04T23:27:12Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > The rule isn’t “shitty gameplay for good graphics” in video games this generation. It’s “shitty gameplay”, period. But that’s merely a function of quantity of titles than anything else. Mm, are you playing Nintendo, by chance? I’m happier with this generation than I have been with any since SNES, but I only have Wii. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/72 "2011-01-04T23:32:11Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Huh? If your Get Smart analogy was a refutation of the bogus B&W:color::SD:HD argument, you failed. (Get Smart was in color.) Hmph, well I had forgotten that (or maybe I was just remembering watching it on our b&w tv as a kid), but the concept still applies. Substitute Dobie Gillis, for god’s sake. Do I have to do all your thinking for you? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/73 "2011-01-04T23:36:41Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Sure they have. Bosstone’s “If the future of gaming is pure graphics…” and Cisco’s dismissive Get Smart analogy steer the direction of the thread right into those rocks. That’s not what they argued. Saying "if the future of gaming is about **pure** graphics is not the same as “Good games can’t have good graphics.” He was arguing a hypothetical based on some of the opinions expressed in this thread, which some have implied that HD visuals are required for games to be worth while. > [@Munch](#): > > Huh? If your Get Smart analogy was a refutation of the bogus B&W:color::SD:HD argument, you failed. (Get Smart was in color.) I’m not Cisco, but it’s clear to me his argument had nothing to do with being black and white. Image quality has advanced a lot since then, in multiple ways, which is closer to the HD argument than B&W is. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/74 "2011-01-04T23:45:00Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Mm, are you playing Nintendo, by chance? I’m happier with this generation than I have been with any since SNES, but I only have Wii. I’ve already stated that I am. I don’t think anyone who’s walked down the Wii aisle in any big box store would disagree with me - but if you would like to, be my guest. My argument is against the miles of shovelware. If you don’t think there’s a shit-ton of crap out there in gaming, more power to you, I guess. > [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > That’s not what they argued. Saying "if the future of gaming is about **pure** graphics is not the same as “Good games can’t have good graphics.” He was arguing a hypothetical based on some of the opinions expressed in this thread, which some have implied that HD visuals are required for games to be worth while. And that’s what I’m saying as well. There was one set of ridiculous arguments - Palooka’s. To make your point against ridiculous arguments isn’t to make other ridiculous arguments. > [@](#): > > I’m not Cisco, but it’s clear to me his argument had nothing to do with being black and white. Image quality has advanced a lot since then, in multiple ways, which is closer to the HD argument than B&W is. Well, Cisco’s weighed in on it, and I guess he’s sticking with the B&W argument for some reason. Either way, it’s arguing against a strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/75 "2011-01-04T23:50:23Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I’ve already stated that I am. I don’t think anyone who’s walked down the Wii aisle in any big box store would disagree with me - but if you would like to, be my guest. My argument is against the miles of shovelware. If you don’t think there’s a shit-ton of crap out there in gaming, more power to you, I guess. Sorry I don’t know your life story. Yeah, there is a ton of shovelware on the Wii. I won’t argue with that. There are a ton of all-time greats, too, that don’t necessarily look any better. > [@Munch](#): > > Well, Cisco’s weighed in on it, and I guess he’s sticking with the B&W argument for some reason. Either way, it’s arguing against a strawman. My point was a counter to this attitude, which specifically equates b&w–\>color to SD–\>HD: > [@](#): > > You can’t be serious. I’ll bet youd have said the same thing about color tv back when it first hit too right? > > It’s called progress dude. Go watch some VHS tapes or laserdiscs or something. -Post #29 So what exactly are you calling a strawman? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/76 "2011-01-05T00:05:41Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Sorry I don’t know your life story. -Post #52. > [@](#): > > There are a ton of all-time greats, too, that don’t necessarily look any better. Correct. Those are what we’ve established as the “exceptions to the rule”. > [@](#): > > So what exactly are you calling a strawman? No one\* has yet to argue that gameplay isn’t what matters most, OR even that HD video is critical to enjoying a game. \*The exception is Palooka, who I (and others) have mentioned several times to have made ridiculous claims. Those claims are being met with further ridiculous claims by the Nintendo defenders, which really hurts their cause. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/77 "2011-01-05T00:08:54Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > And that’s what I’m saying as well. There was one set of ridiculous arguments - Palooka’s. To make your point against ridiculous arguments isn’t to make other ridiculous arguments. I don’t think I’ve said anything ridiculous, but I probably need to explain them fully. It’s a waste when I’m being misread every post, but you’re reasonable enough to warrant it. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/78 "2011-01-05T00:10:11Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Are you serous? Nintendo held back the industry in the 80s (and somehow regressed it 10 years?)? It revived the entire industry in the US! Without Nintendo, gaming would likely have remained stagnant for several more years. No, he said “culture,” not “industry.” ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/79 "2011-01-05T00:12:47Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > No, he said “culture,” not “industry.” The words are interchangeable for my point. The culture was dead as well, hence my use of only “gaming” in the final sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193/80 "2011-01-05T00:37:22Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > I don’t think I’ve said anything ridiculous, but I probably need to explain them fully. It’s a waste when I’m being misread every post, but you’re reasonable enough to warrant it. I think the “Nintendo has set the industry back 10 years” is pretty ridiculous. I really like the Wii, but think the Wii motion controls are pretty gimmicky. However, motion controls themselves are a huge advancement that just haven’t been refined yet. Microsoft seems to be doing really good things with the Kinect, and are working on integrating it into things beyond the console. Nintendo also continues to reinvent the handheld industry every several years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-nintendo-hate-its-fans-so-much/566193.md?page=5)