# Why does PBS still exist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 8, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762 "2009-08-08T19:15:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/21 "2009-08-09T00:50:37Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > There has always been a mandate than anyone fortunate enough to make a shitload of money by using the property of the citizens of the United States _must_ in turn, deliver a certain quantity and quality of public-service and educational programing. Now the SDMB knows! And knowings half the battle! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/22 "2009-08-09T00:57:44Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > **sqweels** > > I like some reality TV, so if the world was my imagination, I wouldn’t get rid of it, but it wouldn’t be as dominant. Also, with a few exceptions, I generally don’t like rap or hip hop, but just because I don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s crap, so again, if this were my world, it would still exist, it just wouldn’t be as dominant. > > **I Love Me, Vol. I** > > Yes, I’ve heard that over-the-air television stations are supposed to provide X number of hours of public service and educational programming. But I’ve always thought that it’s a silly rule anyway. Yes it’s nice if there’s good educational programming, and I’m not happy with TV stations sacrificing quality shows for cheap ones, but in my opinion quality shows shouldn’t be forced on TV networks by the government. Forced? There are a lot of people who don’t like regular Tv shows. They appeal to the common denominator. In order to make money they have to program to appeal to the masses. What TV could promise, will never be realized if selling a product to as many people as possible, determines your programming. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/23 "2009-08-09T01:40:05Z")
I get my British comedies fix from PBS on Saturday nights, right after a rerun Lawrence Welk! And Eastenders! Every Tuesday night, two Eastenders! When they’re pre-empted for an auction or something, the PBS station is flooded with calls from irate Eastenders fans. (we are 5 years behind current storylines, we need every episode we can get). ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/24 "2009-08-09T01:41:27Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Forced? There are a lot of people who don’t like regular Tv shows. They appeal to the common denominator. In order to make money they have to program to appeal to the masses. What TV could promise, will never be realized if selling a product to as many people as possible, determines your programming. Since the FCC requires over-the-air broadcasters to air a certain percentage of “quality programming” then yes, the stations are forced. And yes there are those who don’t like much of what’s on TV. I don’t watch too much myself for this reason, but TV is a luxury and forcing it to air X percentage of quality programming would be like requiring record companies to put X number of educational and quality CD’s or MP3’s. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/25 "2009-08-09T01:43:26Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > TV is a luxury and forcing it to air X percentage of quality programming would be like requiring record companies to put X number of educational and quality CD’s or MP3’s. It would not be like that at all. Read post #14. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/26 "2009-08-09T01:45:49Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > It would not be like that at all. Read post #14. Guess I’m not too bright. Please point out what I’m supposed to be looking for in that post, because nothing I see contradicts my hypothetical comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/27 "2009-08-09T01:55:09Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > \*\*\*On a side note: \*\*\* the SDMB is chock-full of really intelligent, informed, and involved people of all political stripes. So it always amazes me how little people here know about broadcaster’s responsibilities and their recent (since the '80’s or so) lack of accountability. Similarly many people here never seem to grasp that the airwaves in the USA are _publicly_–not privately–owned. All of them–not just PBS. Many Dopers don’t ever quite seem to understand (or maybe accept) that broadcasters can not just air whatever the hell they want; that broadcasting is only partially governed by the whims of the All-Knowing Invisible Hand. Mostly it’s governed by the whims of you and me. Everybody knows about broadcasters’ responsibility to serve the public interest. The problem is that “the public interest” is one of those vague standards that means all sorts of different stuff to different people, and a lot of times, the public interest is better served by reducing regulation and opening more stuff up to competition. A lot of things, like the public file requirement and educational broadcasting requirement are jokes, that require excessive paperwork by the station owners, and rather than actually serving the public, are used as a club by special interest groups or the station’s competitors when the time comes for station renewal. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/28 "2009-08-09T02:12:07Z")
Mister Rogers got his start on our local PBS station -[WQED](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WQED_(TV)), just FYI. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/29 "2009-08-09T02:18:20Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Mister Rogers got his start on our local PBS station -[WQED](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WQED_(TV)), just FYI. He got his start in NBC Studios in New York, but then after three years, went to work for WQED because he was opposed to commercial broadcasting and felt that commercialism had a corrupting influence on children. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/30 "2009-08-09T02:32:13Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > He got his start in NBC Studios in New York, but then after three years, went to work for WQED because he was opposed to commercial broadcasting and felt that commercialism had a corrupting influence on children. Sorry, I meant the show, [_Mister Rogers Neighborhood_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Rogers%27_Neighborhood) specifically – my parents remember watching it when THEY were kids. (I’m not trying to weasel, just repeating what my folks told me) And he IS a local boy – Latrobe, PA. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/31 "2009-08-09T02:33:50Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Since the FCC requires over-the-air broadcasters to air a certain percentage of “quality programming” then yes, the stations are forced. > > And yes there are those who don’t like much of what’s on TV. I don’t watch too much myself for this reason, but TV is a luxury and forcing it to air X percentage of quality programming would be like requiring record companies to put X number of educational and quality CD’s or MP3’s. Actually, no one requires over-the-air broadcasters to air anything, and [no one has since broadcast deregulation in 1987.](http://www.wdfh.org/art_5.htm) The FCC requires that over-the-air broadcasters offer programming that serves “the public interest” in exchange for the right to use broadcast frequencies. It leaves it to the broadcaster to decide what “the public interest” is. If you and I don’t like it, the FCC allows us to challenge the station’s license at renewal time, providing, of course, we pay our own legal fees and are willing to spend years in hearings and appeals. That’s why, out of my hometown’s six commercial over-the-air stations, one has NO local programming at all, one has a single 30-minute local talk show once a week, and one airs local news produced by one of the three stations that still have a news department. And that’s why we still have PBS. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/32 "2009-08-09T02:38:28Z")
Actually, they remember watching him when he was on [The Children’s Corner](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josie_Carey). What’s my point? Thank god for PBS. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/33 "2009-08-09T02:46:34Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Actually, no one requires over-the-air broadcasters to air anything, and [no one has since broadcast deregulation in 1987.](http://www.wdfh.org/art_5.htm) > > The FCC requires that over-the-air broadcasters offer programming that serves “the public interest” in exchange for the right to use broadcast frequencies. It leaves it to the broadcaster to decide what “the public interest” is. If you and I don’t like it, the FCC allows us to challenge the station’s license at renewal time, providing, of course, we pay our own legal fees and are willing to spend years in hearings and appeals. My only point is that regardless of who specifies what’s in the public interest, there is still the requirement for public interest shows and I think it’s silly. > [@](#): > > That’s why, out of my hometown’s six commercial over-the-air stations, one has NO local programming at all, one has a single 30-minute local talk show once a week, and one airs local news produced by one of the three stations that still have a news department. > > And that’s why we still have PBS. I listen to NPR here in Oregon. The only local show that I’m aware of is a town hall type discussion show called “Think out loud”. But to me, local and public interest are two different things. I think things can be local, and not in the public interest, or in the public interest but not local. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/34 "2009-08-09T02:47:28Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > How many of us were brought up on “Sesame Street” and “Mister Rogers”? While I watched these shows as a kid, for the most part I was brought up on books. Besides, Fred Rogers is dead and his show is no longer widely carried - when it is aired it looks amazingly dated. My own kids never paid it any attention at all. _Sesame Street_ had its place in our house, but I have always wondered about the connection the show has to the merchandising arm. It often seems that the show is a massive hour-long commercial for a line of toys at Wal-Mart or Toys R Us. As for there being no source for some of the content that PBS provides - I don’t think this is true anymore. The best TV documentaries I have seen lately have come from the HBO Films operation and some other cable providers. Sure it isn’t one-stop shopping and it isn’t on broadcast TV, but is is there. Inexpensively there too - these generally go to DVD before long, and you don’t have to shell out big bucks in a pledge drive to get the DVD. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/35 "2009-08-09T03:06:23Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Actually, no one requires over-the-air broadcasters to air anything, and [no one has since broadcast deregulation in 1987.](http://www.wdfh.org/art_5.htm) Over the air broadcasters are required to air at least three hours of children’s educational programming a week. They’re required to provide reasonable access to candidates for federal office at the lowest advertising price tier, and if they provide access to one candidate for public office, they are required to provide it to all other candidates for that office. They’re required to not broadcast material that is “obscene”, and may only broadcast material that is “profane” or “indecent” between the hours of 10 pm and 6 am. They are not permitted to intentionally distort the news or knowingly broadcast false information about a crime or catastrophe. They’re not allowed to broadcast misleading information about contests their station runs, or broadcast advertisements or advertisements for lotteries (with a bunch of exceptions). They’re required to provide closed captioning of most of their programming, and are required to participate in the Emergency Alert System. They are required to not air advertisements for tobacco products. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/36 "2009-08-09T03:14:04Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I’ve never understood the point of this argument. I also had lead based paint in my house and didn’t sit in a child safety seat. Hmm, the paint in my house was safe and I _did_ have a child safety seat. Of course, it was made of lead… ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/37 "2009-08-09T04:01:35Z")
I think of what A&E was in 1985. I watched British comedies, Shakespeare, opera, classical concerts. It had my viewership then. Look at what it is now. Any time I look, it’s only momentarily & reminds me why it no longer has my viewership. That’s why PBS still exists. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/38 "2009-08-09T05:38:33Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Guess I’m not too bright. Please point out what I’m supposed to be looking for in that post, because nothing I see contradicts my hypothetical comparison. Ummm, I tried to trim it down but pretty much the whole post is relevant. We own the airwaves. We don’t own CDs and MP3s. What don’t you get about why these things aren’t equivalent at all? > [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > There has always been a mandate than anyone fortunate enough to make a shitload of money by using the property of the citizens of the United States _must_ in turn, deliver a certain quantity and quality of public-service and educational programing. If they do not uphold their end of the bargain, they can have their license revoked. > > Over time, corporate lobbyists have managed to decrease both the quantity and quality of both “worthwhile” programming (open to opinion), but also necessary and mandated programming (crisis notification, government information, local community affairs, etc.) > > the Telecommunications Act of 1996 was only the biggest and official “fuck you” to the owners of the American airwaves. Incremental deregulation, castration of the FCC (or infiltration of corporate butt-boys to its Board) and basic corporate piggery had been ramping up for years prior to that. > > So the answer to the question posed by the OP is simple: PBS, NPR, and other government funded media outlets are the only meaningful vestiges remaining of American broadcasters’ mandate to serve and act on behalf of the public interests of its Master, the American public. > > \*\*\*On a side note: \*\*\* the SDMB is chock-full of really intelligent, informed, and involved people of all political stripes. So it always amazes me how little people here know about broadcaster’s responsibilities and their recent (since the '80’s or so) lack of accountability. Similarly many people here never seem to grasp that the airwaves in the USA are _publicly_–not privately–owned. All of them–not just PBS. Many Dopers don’t ever quite seem to understand (or maybe accept) that broadcasters can not just air whatever the hell they want; that broadcasting is only partially governed by the whims of the All-Knowing Invisible Hand. Mostly it’s governed by the whims of you and me. > > One sees evidence of this SDMB disconnect anytime a thread like this one or all the threads about the DTV switchover come up. EM frequencies are a scarce, finite resource. Because of this, broadcast TV and radio stations have very different rules about what they can and can not present to the public than newspapers, books, cable/satellite TV or the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/39 "2009-08-09T06:18:06Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Ummm, I tried to trim it down but pretty much the whole post is relevant. We own the airwaves. We don’t own CDs and MP3s. What don’t you get about why these things aren’t equivalent at all? What, you rent your CDs and MP3’s? Anyway, my point is that I find some of the requirements for stations to be ridiculous and saying that they’re there because we own the airwaves doesn’t make them any less ridiculous to me. But that’s just my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762/40 "2009-08-09T06:53:23Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > What, you rent your CDs and MP3’s? Huh? Record companies own them. Did you really not read post #14? Because by continuing to push this false analogy you really look like you didn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-pbs-still-exist/505762.md?page=3)