# Why does playing random black keys on the piano sound like "asian music" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 19, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270 "2009-06-19T03:59:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![otorophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3ab097/32.png) [@otorophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otorophile)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/1 "2009-06-19T03:59:12Z")
We have a piano in our house, which I can’t really play. However, I do sometimes mess around with it. One strange thing I always noticed is that if I randomly play the higher-pitched black keys, one-at-a-time in quick succession, it really sounds like Classical Chinese music. I just got a conformation of this from two other people, so I know it can’t be in my head. What’s the deal? I assume it has something to do with the scales and melodies of that style of music, but more information would be appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/2 "2009-06-19T04:08:27Z")
I noticed this ever since I was a little kid, and I too want to know the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/3 "2009-06-19T04:09:40Z")
If you play the middle ranged black keys, the odds are good it will sound middle eastern (something I noted when I was young.) I believe from what I remember being told by a music teacher when I discovered this, and seemingly confirmed by the internet just now, is that the black keys follow the pentatonic scale. The pentatonic scale is quite popular in particular sorts of music, plus it’s an easy way to write simple sounding music–which would be an accurate descriptor of the sorts of songs Hollywood created to refer to particular ethnicities musically back in the black and white era, which is in turn what I suspect many of us internally still think of when thinking about music from those regions having grown up on Looney Toon cartoons. > **[Pentatonic scale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentatonic_scale)** > > A pentatonic scale is a musical scale with five notes per octave, in contrast to the heptatonic scale, which has seven notes per octave (such as the major scale and minor scale). > Pentatonic scales were developed independently by many ancient civilizations and are still used in various musical styles to this day. > There are two types of pentatonic scales: those with semitones (hemitonic) and those without (anhemitonic). > Musicology commonly classifies pentatonic scales as either hemitonic or anhem... Obviously, WordMan or Le Ministre de l’_mumble mumble_ might still come in and say I have no idea what I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/4 "2009-06-19T05:11:48Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Obviously, WordMan or Le Ministre de l’_mumble mumble_ might still come in and say I have no idea what I’m talking about. Nope, you’re right. It’s because the black keys form a pentatonic scale, and most Chinese music is based on something very close to the Western major pentatonic scale. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/5 "2009-06-19T05:54:23Z")
Play the black keys in a scale starting from E-flat (the second black key in the sets of two) and it sounds kind of blues-y. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/6 "2009-06-19T07:44:04Z")
Noodling around with the black-key pentatonic scale can yield some surprising results - for instance, the theme from “All in the Family”. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Clanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@Small\_Clanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Clanger)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/7 "2009-06-19T09:46:04Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] Play the black keys in a scale starting from E-flat (the second black key in the sets of two) and it sounds kind of blues-y. [/QUOTE] That’ll be the minor pentatonic, the basis for 98.42% of Rock and Blues guitar (except you really need to play in the cracks). Start on F# to sound like bagpipes. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/8 "2009-06-19T11:14:27Z")
John Lennon was a fan of the pentatonic scale, and songs like “Jealous Guy” and “Beautiful Boy” follow it pretty closely. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/9 "2009-06-19T11:47:52Z")
Now there’s a case of “less is more” if there ever was one. Why use 7 notes when you can use only 5? ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/10 "2009-06-19T11:49:30Z")
My piano teacher once said no matter what you play on the black keys will sound good. This seems to hold true, but I do not know why this is. I didn’t stick with piano, but maybe others of the SD may know why this is? ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/11 "2009-06-19T12:15:18Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > My piano teacher once said no matter what you play on the black keys will sound good. This seems to hold true, but I do not know why this is. I didn’t stick with piano, but maybe others of the SD may know why this is? Maybe because the pentatonic scale doesn’t have [leading tones](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading_tone); in fact, another way to get a pentatonic scale is to take the standard diatonic scale and remove the leading tones. Since you’ve taken the semitones out of the scale, the worst of the possible dissonances in the diatonic scale are obviated. ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/12 "2009-06-19T14:13:12Z")
MikeS nailed it, although everyone’s on the right track. Pentatonic scales are safe, for all practical purposes there are no ‘wrong’ notes in there. It is for this reason the pentatonics are the scale of choice for many rock, folk and blues musicians. What’s missing are the color tones, the leading and flavor tones that give rise to the more colorful aspects of diatonic and extended harmony. It’s hard to miss with the pentatonic scale, but it’s also tough to bring real color and tension to the melody as well. That said, by combining varying pentatonics over static chords it is quite possible to imply more complex harmony based on upper extensions. But that’s a subject that would require more explication than I willing to go into on my iPhone keyboard. If anyones really curious I can address it in detail later at my real computer. ---
**Author:** ![Serenata67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/serenata67/32/10646_2.png) [@Serenata67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serenata67)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/13 "2009-06-19T14:59:57Z")
[quote=“picker, post:12, topic:500270”] MikeS nailed it, although everyone’s on the right track. Pentatonic scales are safe, for all practical purposes there are no ‘wrong’ notes in there… [QUOTE] Bingo. In college, my best friend was a music major and for a project, he had to write this big piano piece… but he insisted on only using black keys… and it was amazing! ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/14 "2009-06-19T15:23:53Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Nope, you’re right. It’s because the black keys form a pentatonic scale, and most Chinese music is based on something very close to the Western major pentatonic scale. This is essentially it. While this is not totally correct, the eight-note major and minor key scales are founded on twelve half-steps in modern piano tuning (“equal temperament” IIRC): 1. C natural 2, **C#/D-flat** 2. D 3. **D#/E-flat** 4. E 5. F 6. **F#/G-flat** 7. G 8. **G#/A-flat** 9. A 10. **A#/B-flat** 11. B 12. C (=1) 13. **C#/D-flat** (=2) 14. D (=3) 15. **D#/E-flat** (=4) 16. E (=5) etc. I’ve bolded the black-key steps, which are “chromatic” to a C scale. Note that they are a sequence of 2-4-7-9-11, a pentatonic scale characteristic of some East Asian music. Obviously, an 8-step diatonic Western scale can start from any note, and will be 1-3-5-6-8-10-12 _starting with that note_. A G scale, for example, starts with G, and uses F# rather than F for the seventh note (half step 12 on my list). Likewise, a pentatonic scale can be the second, fourth, seventh, ninth, and eleventh half-steps starting from any note. Using E as tonic, a pentatonic of F, G, B-flat, C, and D is possible. And so on. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/15 "2009-06-19T15:35:56Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Using E as tonic, a pentatonic of F, G, B-flat, C, and D is possible. And so on. I understand what you’re saying, but I have a minor quibble with use of the word “tonic” there. Using E as tonic, the major pentatonic would be E, F#, G#, B, C#. (The minor pentatonic would be E, G, A, B, D). A tonic is technically the first note of a musical scale, so your scale would be a major pentatonic with F as the tonic. I understand that you mean E as a starting point for your formula, but that’s not the same as a tonic. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/16 "2009-06-19T16:12:33Z")
Playing only the black keys on a piano puts you in the key of F# Major. I’m not strong enough on music theory to be positive or to go into any detail but I suspect the reason for the different sounds, Chinese, Middle Eastern, blues, bagpipes, etc., being mentioned has to do with the mode being played. Playing in different modes in the same key results in very different sounds. I have only a vague understanding of modes … perhaps one of you strong theory guys can discuss (or refute) this. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/17 "2009-06-19T17:04:27Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > John Lennon was a fan of the pentatonic scale, and songs like “Jealous Guy” and “Beautiful Boy” follow it pretty closely. It worked for Irving Berlin too. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/18 "2009-06-19T17:23:08Z")
> [@Small\_Clanger](#): > > That’ll be the minor pentatonic, the basis for 98.42% of Rock and Blues guitar (except you really need to play in the cracks). > > Start on F# to sound like bagpipes. I thought starting on D# was a major pentatonic, I only say this because I thought a yo scale was the 4th mode of a pentatonic, and [wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo_scale) supports me. If you start one key higher (D#/Eb) you’d then get the first mode, hence major, no? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/19 "2009-06-19T18:04:23Z")
> [@Turble](#): > > Playing only the black keys on a piano puts you in the key of F# Major. If F# is your tonic (meaning your scale starts there and melodies have a tendency to resolve to that note) then, yes, you are in a F# major pentatonic. (And that is what people are thinking of when they think of black keys = Asian music) However, if E-flat is your tonic, you have an E-flat minor pentatonic (blues) scale there. (Although many blues musicians will also add the A natural there for extra tension.) ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270/20 "2009-06-19T18:06:35Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I thought starting on D# was a major pentatonic, I only say this because I thought a yo scale was the 4th mode of a pentatonic, and [wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo_scale) supports me. If you start one key higher (D#/Eb) you’d then get the first mode, hence major, no? :smack: Nevermind, I can do basic math now that I’ve had caffeine. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-playing-random-black-keys-on-the-piano-sound-like-asian-music/500270.md?page=2)