# Why does religion hate gays? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 20, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161 "2012-01-20T19:34:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/21 "2012-01-20T23:07:31Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > It should be noted that modern Reform and Conservative Judaism have totally rejected any form of homophobia. There are lots of openly gay rabbis (including the one at the synagogue of my childhood.) It is no longer an issue. There are a number of Christian denominations that also either fully accept homosexuality or are working toward it. > [@florez](#): > > Would homosexuality still not be a threat to this, or was it an acceptable part of their tribe/culture? True, people who are only having gay sex are not having children. It’s an interesting anthropology question as to why homosexual sex was taboo in ancient cultures. It could be because of the importance of procreation, or what we call ‘the ick factor’, or other social reasons. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/22 "2012-01-20T23:18:07Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > My son has been asking me about this, especially as it is cloked in religion. The problem is that a strict reading of Leviticus makes many things immoral. > > Wearing blended fabrics Lev 19:19 > Haircuts Lev 19:27 > Not showing respect for old people by standing Lev 19:32 > > But those are relatively minor. What deserves the death penalty? > Disrespecting your parent or causing them misfortune Lev 20:9 = Death > Adultery if both are married Lev 20:10 = Death > Homosexuality Lev 20:13 = Death > Sex during the woman’s period Lev 20:18 = Banishment > Being the daughter of a priest and a prostitute Lev 21:9 = Death > Transvestism Deut 22:5 = Death (the charge on which Joan of Arc was executed FWIW) > [@Skammer](#): > > Secondly, if we’re looking at the Abrahamic faiths where the same-sex taboo is found in the Levitical law, we’re not talking about a society focused on “membership drive and expansion” in the way you might attribute to religious groups today. They were concerned with preserving their tribe/culture and defining themselves apart from other groups. Having children is critical to survival, but if you’re thinking they were taking their religion to outsiders that’s far from the truth. That’s an important aspect of it IMO: it’s not so much that in Israelite times they were saying that it was “immoral” per se to dress or shave differently, but that\* members of the tribe\* were mandated to do so in a particular manner and not going along with the plan imperiled the tribe. The various Levitical rules IMO were not meant to be universal dictates of human morality but just the civil and penal code of the Israelite tribes, so that the tribal identity would be preserved by behaving in a specified way (including having a bunch of legitimate Israelite babies from known descent, beause having children and grandchildren WAS your Social Security); they’d outlaw trasvestism for example because other cultures around may have is as part of some of their rituals, and they are saying, sorry, we’re all about being “Not-THEM”, if you’re one of us you’d better not even dream of rolling like that(\*). It was later that their spiritual descendants, including Christianity and Islam, decided that some of those were universal moral mandates that you must cram down the throats of otherwise harmless unbelievers or else. When the proto-Christians were deciding to admit non-Jews they then pondered what they wanted to keep or dump from Levitic law in order to do so (see: Acts 15), and that’s when they kept the proscriptions against idolatry and “fornication”, probably as speculated before because they viewed those as specially characteristic of the pagans, but dumped a whole bunch of the dietary and sartorial rules. \*(The death penalty part was an artifact of the age. Heck, it wasn’t so long ago that horse rustling was a capital crime in parts of the Western World. If you’re a desert tribe barely scraping by you can’t afford to jail and feed a contrarian convict for years, the more economical course of action is to kill 'im.) ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/23 "2012-01-20T23:34:19Z")
Part of the reason is misogyny. If a man wants to be with another man he must in some way be feminine and that is by definition inferior. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/24 "2012-01-21T00:02:08Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I’d like to point out that no religion I know of claims to “hate gays,” _\_ What, you’ve never heard or seen “God hates fags”? That’s as straightforward a declaration of religious hatred for homosexuals as you could get. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/25 "2012-01-21T00:29:48Z")
I think religion is the result of people trying to understand the world around them. They saw the world as “ordered” in a particular way that allows it to function, and the guidelines for sexual reproduction are an obvious aspect of that. They also felt that this ordering was set up by powers beyond our comprehension, albeit for our benefit, And so by condoning an apparently _dis_ordered form of behavior in this area, we risk upsetting the system and causing consequences in a way that we can’t understand or predict. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/26 "2012-01-21T00:37:12Z")
Also, guilt and hatred of the “different” are common tools used by religion to control people, and forbidding various kinds of sexual desires and practices are great ways of inducing both. Homosexuality is great “witch hunt” material; it’s impossible to prove you _aren’t_ homosexual after all, and they “look just like us!” ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/27 "2012-01-21T00:48:32Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > True, people who are only having gay sex are not having children. It’s an interesting anthropology question as to why homosexual sex was taboo in ancient cultures. It could be because of the importance of procreation, or what we call ‘the ick factor’, or other social reasons. I really don’t think the procreation theory makes any sense. Unless all of your males are engaging in exclusive homosexuality, the limiting factor on how fecund your tribe is going to be is _not_ whether or not a few males are abstaining from procreative sex. It takes all of ten minutes to impregnate a female, the heterosexual male tribemembers aren’t going to have any problems taking up the slack left by having a few gay peers not doing there part. Exclusively homosexual woman would be a problem, since that actually lessens the number of wombs you can have churning out babies at any given time. But since if anything, anti-gay prohibitions seem focused on men, I don’t think maximizing new babies is the real reason. (plus I suspect woman in most tribes are going to end up forced to engage in hetero-sex whether they want to or not,) ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/28 "2012-01-21T01:04:29Z")
Because the whole point of being religious is to act like an asshole and then pretend you’re the victim when called out on it. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/29 "2012-01-21T01:25:21Z")
Faithful followers of the Bible don’t hate anybody. I have said it here before, my God doesn’t hate fags. Nor can faithful followers of the Bible condone sex except between a man and his wife. Modern Christians didn’t write the Bible. We just try to understand it and follow it. We all fail at times. Either the Westboro Baptists or I am wrong about the treatment of homosexuals. I pray for both. I am not familiar enough with the Quran to know how it really calls for treating homosexuals. While afirming the sinfulness, I don’t think the New Testament singles out the treatment of homosexuals. The Old testiment isn’t very nice to them. Yes Christians do spend a lot of time on sex. I know those that have sinned sexually, but few robbers and murderers. I have never robbed a bank and likely never will. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/30 "2012-01-21T01:34:58Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Because the whole point of being religious is to act like an asshole and then pretend you’re the victim when called out on it. Well, it’s not the _only_ point, but that’s certainly a major function of religion. > [@thelabdude](#): > > Faithful followers of the Bible don’t hate anybody. And they aren’t True Scotsmen either. > [@thelabdude](#): > > Yes Christians do spend a lot of time on sex. I know those that have sinned sexually, but few robbers and murderers. I have never robbed a bank and likely never will. :rolleyes: Ah, the old “if not for Jesus I’d be an amoral psychopath” bit. A way of being both self righteous and insulting at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/31 "2012-01-21T02:36:22Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > Faithful followers of the Bible don’t hate anybody. The problem is that a lot of other people who also consider themselves faithful followers of the Bible _do_ hate people (including gays) - and both of you can find some scriptural support for your views. There are religious traditions that embrace unusual sexual identities and views, but there’s also a strain of homophobia that runs through all of the major religions. It’s a very old human prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/32 "2012-01-21T02:51:47Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > Yes Christians do spend a lot of time on sex. I know those that have sinned sexually, but few robbers and murderers. I have never robbed a bank and likely never will. History is full of robbing and murdering christians, but then when the event (if I need to cite, OMG I will be here all day..) But the point is whenever I have cited the unholy events in history,perpetrated by christians, it is generally denied by the christian- I am speaking to at that moment. And a typical response from the christian is- that these were not “real christians” committing these crimes against others. Leaving me to wonder who then are the real christians? I hope that you are not doing that here with your post, and I only speak from my own experience because I am the real florez. ---
**Author:** ![robinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/848f3c/32.png) [@robinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinson)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/33 "2012-01-21T02:52:30Z")
Good job, Sir! If your son is being raised a Christian, get him a “red-letter” bible (words of Jesus in red) and let him know that those are the words that count. ---
**Author:** ![robinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/848f3c/32.png) [@robinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinson)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/34 "2012-01-21T02:56:53Z")
And do those who say it have any religious (under)standing? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/35 "2012-01-21T03:01:42Z")
> [@robinson](#): > > And do those who say it have any religious (under)standing? Who decides who has the correct understanding? ---
**Author:** ![Paralogic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Paralogic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paralogic)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/36 "2012-01-21T03:25:39Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > But why? Particularly in the Big Three monotheisms, what was it about homosexuality (an expression of love that we know is not harmful in of itself) in the early days that led to such condemnation in the early holy texts? Was it a holdover from Greek and Roman days and an association with paganism? Was there some more practical reason why in those days man-man lady-lady love would be a bad idea (doesn’t produce children, bad in a pastoral society maybe)? Help me out. The Big Three are all Abrahamic religions, all stemming from the same religious belief roots of the divine male god figure who has absolute power upon the lives of human beings and has the same personality traits as an average neurotic mentally unstable person that grew up in a dysfunctional and hostile environment. There are also a couple of core psychological factors in heterosexual males and females that predispose them to hostility against homosexual behavior and somehow they became a social norm in the three major Western religions. For males, it’s a fear of castration - subconsciously fearing they may be castrated before a sexual encounter with another male, and for females it’s a fear of abandonment - they can’t understand why another male may leave them for another man, and they can’t predict or avoid the possibility. By the way, in the ancient Greek times, and in most Roman times later, homosexuality as a social behavior was nothing like how we think of it in our modern mostly Victorian-era influenced moral social standards. Also, child rearing, or the perceived lack of it, would not be a factor to explain the entrenched hostility against homosexuality. In ancient or pre-Abrahamic religion times, hetero- and homo- sexual relations were not exclusive of each other. They are not in our times either. ---
**Author:** ![robinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/848f3c/32.png) [@robinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinson)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/37 "2012-01-21T04:04:28Z")
. . . abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality" Acts 15 Paul states that Christians are not subject to the law of Moses, but then cautions: Be careful that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. (1 Corinthians) The main concern in these passages is to avoid giving public offense to the Jewish community. Personal holiness is another matter. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/38 "2012-01-21T04:12:36Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > Faithful followers of the Bible don’t hate anybody. I have said it here before, my God doesn’t hate fags. Nor can faithful followers of the Bible condone sex except between a man and his wife. Getting into semantic debates over extremely ambiguous words like “hate” just distracts from the main issue: you’re telling me I can’t get married or have sex, ever. I couldn’t care less whether that means you “hate” me or not, because I don’t subscribe to your religioun where “hating” or not “hating” things is of central importance. I do care a lot about the implications of your views for me and I do have a strong opinion of what kind of person they make you. ---
**Author:** ![robinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/848f3c/32.png) [@robinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinson)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/39 "2012-01-21T04:14:02Z")
Pretty condescending, Robot! ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161/40 "2012-01-21T04:15:00Z")
> [@robinson](#): > > And do those who say it have any religious (under)standing? Is my comment on christian denial of historical christian crime-by conveniently relabeling the perpetrators-- as not “real christians” being addressed here? And are you questioning the religious understanding of the afore mentioned christians? And is it possible that you believe these are not real christians due to a lack of religious understanding- that you yourself possess? Correct me if I am misunderstanding here. Sorry to go off thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-religion-hate-gays/610161.md?page=3)