# Why does Russia; the invading country; think complaining about sabotage on Russian soil is worth complaining about? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [May 22, 2023, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425 "2023-05-22T15:30:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/1 "2023-05-22T15:30:05Z")
Continuing the discussion from [Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4120): > **[Russia accuses Ukraine of mounting 'sabotage' attack across border | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/22/europe/belgorod-ukrainian-forces-russian-territory-intl/index.html)** > > A group of anti-Putin Russian nationals, who are aligned with the Ukrainian army, has claimed responsibility for an attack in Belgorod, as Moscow said it was fighting a group of saboteurs in the southwestern region. Do they understand they’re at war with Ukraine? Do they forget that they’re destroying civilian lives, cities & towns? Don’t they understand they’re made everything Russian a fair target? It is beyond ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/2 "2023-05-22T15:37:56Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Do they understand they’re at war with Ukraine? > Do they forget that they’re destroying civilian lives, cities & towns? > Don’t they understand they’re made everything Russian a fair target? Yes, no and yes. It’s part of Russian propaganda to gain foreign sympathy from the clueless, and to stir up reluctant Russians to support the Putin regime’s invasion. Though you’d think that a country whose military [targets civilians](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/04/ukraine-russian-forces-extrajudicially-executing-civilians-in-apparent-war-crimes-new-testimony/) would refrain from whining about “sabotage”. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/3 "2023-05-22T15:40:11Z")
It really is frustrating beyond belief. I would love to see a large increase in military targets in Russia blown-up. Their bullshit is overwhelming. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/4 "2023-05-22T15:41:58Z")
It reminds me of the sociopathic bank robber who was furious that the bank teller pulled the silent alarm, thus getting the police to nab him. _How could the teller sabotage his plans like that, how selfish!?_ ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/5 "2023-05-22T15:43:57Z")
It makes me think of the poor guy crying that he’s an orphan after he’s murdered his parents. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/6 "2023-05-22T16:03:40Z")
It’s because Russia’s whole narrative, this whole tragic episode, has been to play the victim. They only invaded Ukraine to defend themselves, because Ukraine is full of Nazis, because NATO wants to destroy them, because the West is evil. This completely fits their narrative, not sure why it’s so surprising. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/7 "2023-05-22T16:06:15Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > This completely fits their narrative, not sure why it’s so surprising. Because it is so illogical as to cause pain. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/8 "2023-05-22T16:10:45Z")
Ah, but for the audience in Russia, this is a near-holy war “special military operation” to overthrow the Nazis and criminals who are holding in bondage the residents of Ukraine who are really Russians (only they don’t all know it yet, thanks to brainwashing by the godless globalist gay Muslim terrorists funded by Soros). So attempts to resist them must _of course_ be a cruel injustice to Mother Russia. Or some such. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/9 "2023-05-22T16:13:40Z")
Ah, yes … [Insane Troll Logic](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic). That fits. > **[Insane Troll Logic - TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic)** > > Insane Troll Logic is the kind of logic that just can't be argued with because it's so demented, so lost in its own insanity, that any attempts to make it rational would make it more incomprehensible. It is logic failure that crosses over into … ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/10 "2023-05-22T16:29:14Z")
To understand Russian justifications, imagine Trump voters, except with round fur hats instead of red caps. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/11 "2023-05-22T16:31:25Z")
No imagination necessary. https ://www.clevelan [d.com/resizer/9krahKOLYeuhOG9-tqKg3sBBjHk=/1280x0/smart/a](http://d.com/resizer/9krahKOLYeuhOG9-tqKg3sBBjHk=/1280x0/smart/a) [dvancelocal-adapter-image-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com](http://dvancelocal-adapter-image-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com) /expo.advance.net/img/6f200923be/width2048/854\_img2082.jpeg ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/12 "2023-05-22T16:32:57Z")
**Modding** : This is not a thread for Trump stuff. Please drop it now. _Breaking image._ ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/13 "2023-05-22T21:44:40Z")
Skipping over the Trump stuff, I do think part of it is a form of cognitive dissonance. Putin has constantly claimed that everything once Russian remains Russian. It’s the backbone of many of his territorial claims. So from that assumption, comes many acts of violence. Despite his other craptastic justifications for this war, I believe (since this is IMHO after all) Putin sincerely considers Ukraine is his by right of being Russian. That means those that fight against him are not just enemies, but dirty, stinking _traitors_. How dare they strike back! They’re the villains of the piece anyway, no better than terrorists really. And through the propaganda claims like those in this incident, he tries to get the rest of the world (especially Turkey, China, and India) to see it his way. Since those three nations DO tend to define all efforts to gainsay them in similar terms (as do individuals and groups closer to home) it’s effective. They too do not want to see challenges to their presumptive empires after all. So, take 8 parts of overweening arrogance/hubris and two parts shady realpolitik, and voila! A cocktail of violent, self-righteous madness. Screw all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/14 "2023-05-22T21:57:09Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It reminds me of the sociopathic bank robber who was furious that the bank teller pulled the silent alarm, thus getting the police to nab him. _How could the teller sabotage his plans like that, how selfish!?_ There’s a Yakov Smirnoff-style “In Russia…” joke in there somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/15 "2023-05-22T22:14:56Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > There’s a Yakov Smirnoff-style “In Russia…” joke in there somewhere. TIL that he’s actually Ukrainian, was a speechwriting advisor for Reagan, and has a doctorate in psychology. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/16 "2023-05-22T22:22:27Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Because it is so illogical as to cause pain. “It’s OK when Russia does it” is the idea. It is outrageous, of course, but the argument is not unkown in other times and places. The French have the saying _Cet animal est très méchant, Quand on l’attaque il se défend._ (translation: This is a very evil animal, it defends itself when it is attacked). In old Rome there was the Latin saying: _Quod licet Jovi not licet bovi_ (what Jupiter can do the ox can not) Same logic here: we, the glorious Russians, may act as we please. You may not even defend yourself, because it is unfair and evil. I am very glad every time this premise fails. May Putin’s Russia be thoroughly defeated! ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/17 "2023-05-22T22:31:25Z")
I agree it’s part of the whole propaganda thing. AIUI Russian citizens cannot even casually mention any criticism of the war or the country’s leadership. Anything Ukraine may do in defense of itself will be spun-up to Russians as over-reacting aggression by the enemy, all the while any hint of Russia’s aggression will be suppressed. TBH, I am surprised the conflict has gone on for so long without any major incidents just over the border on the Russian side, like retaliatory shelling of a Russian city. Either we are just not hearing about it, or Ukraine is just that much more restrained. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2023, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/18 "2023-05-23T10:29:21Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > TBH, I am surprised the conflict has gone on for so long without any major incidents just over the border on the Russian side, like retaliatory shelling of a Russian city. Either we are just not hearing about it, or Ukraine is just that much more restrained. It has always been made clear that Western arms supplies are not to be used for attack into Russia, so as not to risk escalation into an outright NATO/Russia war. Indeed there has been much hesitancy over any step in arms supplies that might give Ukraine that capacity. Which may explain why Ukraine does not claim responsibility for assorted mysterious explosions on airfields and other targets for sabotage inside Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2023, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/19 "2023-05-23T10:41:30Z")
Sure wish the USA and NATO would poke the bear a lot more. Send Putin a private - or public - message with calm but firm wording: _“We intend to deliver Ukraine a wide assortment of long-ranged weaponry with full permission to strike anywhere on Russian soil, including Moscow and the Kremlin itself. You must dutifully seethe in impotent rage; finger on the nuclear button but unable to press it. If you launch nukes, you know you get glassed in return; that’s how MAD works. The missile strikes will go on for months and months and you can’t do anything about it. And we will continuously remind the global audience that you have 6,000 nukes but are unable to use any of them. Any questions?”_ ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2023, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425/20 "2023-05-23T10:45:15Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > It has always been made clear that Western arms supplies are not to be used for attack into Russia, so as not to risk escalation into an outright NATO/Russia war. Indeed there has been much hesitancy over any step in arms supplies that might give Ukraine that capacity. Which may explain why Ukraine does not claim responsibility for assorted mysterious explosions on airfields and other targets for sabotage inside Russia. And no doubt this is part of the western hesitancy of supplying aircraft which, though undoubtedly effective for defence, are also very capable of strikes into Russia territory in a way that is less plausibly deniable than a sabotage operation, wayward artillery shell or an SSM. However I think snowthx touched upon it. Ukraine are just more restrained in general (though not completely so) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-russia-the-invading-country-think-complaining-about-sabotage-on-russian-soil-is-worth-complaining-about/984425.md?page=2)