# Why does Socrates in Plato's "The First Alcibiades" refer to the Peparethians as "ignoble Peparethians"? What made them ignoble in the eyes of the Athenians?

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**Created:** [September 10, 2023, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-socrates-in-platos-the-first-alcibiades-refer-to-the-peparethians-as-ignoble-peparethians-what-made-them-ignoble-in-the-eyes-of-the-athenians/989874 "2023-09-10T13:59:59Z")\
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**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\
**Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-socrates-in-platos-the-first-alcibiades-refer-to-the-peparethians-as-ignoble-peparethians-what-made-them-ignoble-in-the-eyes-of-the-athenians/989874/1 "2023-09-10T13:59:59Z")

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Why does Socrates in Plato’s “The First Alcibiades” refer to the Peparethians as “ignoble Peparethians”? What made them ignoble in the eyes of the Athenians?

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**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\
**Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-socrates-in-platos-the-first-alcibiades-refer-to-the-peparethians-as-ignoble-peparethians-what-made-them-ignoble-in-the-eyes-of-the-athenians/989874/2 "2023-09-10T15:01:25Z")

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Just speculating but Peparethus was apparently known for its wine in the ancient Greek world. So Socrates may have felt the Peparethians drank to excess.

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**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\
**Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-socrates-in-platos-the-first-alcibiades-refer-to-the-peparethians-as-ignoble-peparethians-what-made-them-ignoble-in-the-eyes-of-the-athenians/989874/3 "2023-09-11T10:06:54Z")

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Note that the [Greek text](https://el.wikisource.org/wiki/%CE%91%CE%BB%CE%BA%CE%B9%CE%B2%CE%B9%CE%AC%CE%B4%CE%B7%CF%82_%CE%B1) doesn’t have the _ **noble** _ Athenians/_ **ignoble** _ Peparithians gloss:

“εἴτε Ἀθηναίοις εἴτε Πεπαρηθίοις”  
“either the Athenians or the Peparithians”

I suspect this is on the translators, to highlight the point Socrates is making, not on Plato.

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**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\
**Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-socrates-in-platos-the-first-alcibiades-refer-to-the-peparethians-as-ignoble-peparethians-what-made-them-ignoble-in-the-eyes-of-the-athenians/989874/4 "2023-09-11T11:34:05Z")

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Yes Little\_Nemo. Your interpretation based on my general reading makes sense.

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**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\
**Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-socrates-in-platos-the-first-alcibiades-refer-to-the-peparethians-as-ignoble-peparethians-what-made-them-ignoble-in-the-eyes-of-the-athenians/989874/5 "2023-09-11T11:37:31Z")

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Thanks MrDibble. My translation comes from the Canterbury Classics(San Diego) anthology. The text doesn’t provide the name of the translator.