# Why does syntax vary with language? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 15, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-syntax-vary-with-language/663599 "2013-07-15T21:44:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-syntax-vary-with-language/663599/21 "2013-07-16T22:08:11Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > While English almost always places the adjective first, in poetic usage it can come after, e.g. “river deep and mountain high.” Time flies, like an arrow Time flies, arrow-like Time, like an arrow, flies Arrow-like, time flies Arrow-like, flies time Flying, arrow-like; time So if a language becomes flexible enough to permit different syntax, it can become inflexible again, but in a different direction. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-syntax-vary-with-language/663599/22 "2013-07-17T01:53:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Or in very utilitarian use, such as military specs: > Rope, hemp, 50’ > Armor, personal, kevlar, 1 suit > Armor, vehicular, steel, humvee, for use on > > Et cetera. A recipe or grocery list might be similar in this regard, but I wouldn’t call any of these examples of real syntax. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-syntax-vary-with-language/663599/23 "2013-07-17T02:15:29Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > Wow, some great information, all. JKelly has a good explanation. Wendell’s cite, however, described the process (in dry, technical-term-laden language) fairly clearly. > > For those that don’t want to read the whole article (and who can blame you), here’s a summary of the process. I’ll use the abbreviations _S_, _V_, and _O_ to refer to subject, verb, and object words, respectively. [ol] > [li]Language starts with word order A (usually _SOV_) and order B being acceptable though less common (e.g. limited to: specific fields of study, particular venues (plays, poetry, legal documents, etc.), and the like)[/li][li] Order B becomes as common and equally accepted as order A this stage is referred to as “free word order”. According to the study some the languages at this stage are: Tagalog, Tongan, Assyrian, and Lebanese (eastern arabic) are at this stage[/li][li] Order B becomes the dominant pattern, though order A may still be used in certain situations (basically the reverse of step 1)[/li][/ol] > > The specifics of how a language moves from one step to another are (apparently) still poorly understood, if at all. But what about languages like Latin, where a complicated system of inflection allows for much greater if not total syntactic freedom? Considering that most other European languages have simultaneously moved toward rigid syntax rules while most of the inflections have disappeared, how do those languages fit into the above scenario? Is it possible that some precursor of PIE had simple morphology and rigid syntax, like English, and then _acquired_ the seven or so declensions, four or five cases, and three grammatical genders characterize, say, Lithuanian? ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-syntax-vary-with-language/663599/24 "2013-07-17T02:37:38Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > But what about languages like Latin, where a complicated system of inflection allows for much greater if not total syntactic freedom? I think you’re conflating syntax and word order here. Latin speakers were not constrained by a rigid word order, but that does not mean you can say that Latin is characterized by greater syntactic freedom than other languages. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-syntax-vary-with-language/663599/25 "2013-07-17T02:57:14Z")
A good book for learning about how and why languages change is _The Unfolding of Language_ by Guy Deutscher. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-syntax-vary-with-language/663599/26 "2013-07-17T09:14:23Z")
I’ve read that the Insular Celtic languages (but not Continental Celtic) have VSO word order. Since changes in word order are rarish and often arise via contact, it is hypothesized that languages of the British Isles prior to the Celtics may have had VSO word order. Since some Semitic and related North African languages (Berber, etc.) are the only “nearby” languages with VSO order, this leads to speculation about the prehistory of Western Europe. (With only a smallish number of plausible Afroasiatic–\>Celtic/Germanic cognates, I think such speculations are considered fringish.) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-syntax-vary-with-language/663599/27 "2013-07-17T11:07:41Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’ve read that the Insular Celtic languages (but not Continental Celtic) have VSO word order. Can’t speak for all of them, but Irish and Scottish Gaelic are both VSO. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-syntax-vary-with-language/663599/28 "2013-07-17T13:43:35Z")
Here’s an article about the VSO languages: > **[Verb–subject–object word order](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verb%E2%80%93subject%E2%80%93object)** > > In linguistic typology, a verb–subject–object (VSO) language has its most typical sentences arrange their elements in that order, as in Ate Sam oranges (Sam ate oranges). VSO is the third-most common word order among the world's languages, after SOV (as in Hindi and Japanese) and SVO (as in English and Mandarin Chinese). > Language families in which all or many of their members are VSO include the following: > Many languages, such as Greek, have relatively free word order, where VSO is one of many ... Here’s a list of many of them: > **[Category:Verb–subject–object languages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Verb%E2%80%93subject%E2%80%93object_languages)** > > The following languages primarily have a canonical word order of VSO (verb–subject–object). > This category has the following 6 subcategories, out of 6 total. > The following 58 pages are in this category, out of 58 total. This list may not reflect recent changes. So examples of them are the Celtic languages, the Semitic languages, the Polynesian languages, and certain native languages of the Americas. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-syntax-vary-with-language/663599/29 "2013-07-17T13:54:11Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Time flies like an arrow Fruit flies like a banana. Sorry, just couldn’t help myself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-syntax-vary-with-language/663599.md?page=1)