# Why does the baseball commissioner allow the monster wall at Fenway Park? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 1, 2003, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512 "2003-05-01T23:57:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/21 "2003-05-02T05:14:23Z")
Pac Bell Stadium is the most favorable park for pitchers in the major leagues now. With the exception of the RF line, it is pretty deep to the other parts of the outfield. Also, the weather in San Francisco, normally cold and damp, is the worst kind of weather for getting a baseball to travel far. If Barry Bonds weren’t playing there, the effect would be even more noticeable. On the [MLB.com](http://MLB.com) website, you can pull up a chart showing where each of Bonds’ homeruns in 2002 landed when he was playing at Pac Bell park. From my estimate, he hit 9 home runs to RF, 6 to CF, and 2 to LF. Bonds rarely hits the ball on the ground to the opposite field, but he can hit home runs to LF ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_believe_that_s_butter)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/22 "2003-05-02T05:54:25Z")
This is barely related to the OP, but I thought it would be interesting to add that, despite its menacing nature, the Green Monster was [conquered](http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20030501&content_id=299764&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp) tonight. ---
**Author:** ![nineiron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e56c9b/32.png) [@nineiron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nineiron)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/23 "2003-05-02T11:28:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exgineer \* > \*\* > Fenway Park is _old_. It was built long before organized baseball as we know it today developed. It’s also pretty much falling apart. > \*\* I’ve heard people say this an awful lot, but I don’t see evidence of it at Fenway. It’s in fine shape. ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/24 "2003-05-02T12:27:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exgineer \* > **The short answer is: the danged thing got grandfathered in…When they talk about building a new park, fans say “we’ll still have a Monster, right?” and the baseball wonks say "well, that would be against the rules."** Hmm… Baltimore boasts of having a [poor copy of a] green monster. When they built the Camden Yards stadium, one part of the wall was made to mimick the “green monster” of Boston. There was a plan to even grow ivy, but as I recall, the plan was changed to put a mural there, instead. Whatever…it just looks stupid to me. …Boston has nothing to worry about. - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/25 "2003-05-02T12:44:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > \*\*Ditto Wrigley - it’s charming, but I can’t help but think Sammy would have so many homers playing a lot of other places. 😛 \*\* Not as true as one might think… From [baseball-reference.com](http://baseball-reference.com): Wrigley Field Park Effect, 100 being average: 2002: 98 2001: 96.5 2000: 91 1999: 106.5 1998: 103 1997: 102 1996: 101 1995: 96.5 1994: 99 So other than 1999 Wrigley has been no greater than 3% more hitter-friendly than the ‘average’ MLB park. And lately it’s been unfriendly. New construction (the press box being rebuilt)? Global warming? Aliens? You tell me. FTR… Most hitter friendly: Coors Field (Colorado Rockies): 2002: 120 2001: 120.5 2000: 129.5(!!!) 1999: 127.5 1998: 119.5 So if you are a .260 hitter in Coors you can expect to hit .312. God help us. ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/26 "2003-05-02T12:55:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nineiron \* > \*\*I’ve heard people say this an awful lot, but I don’t see evidence of it at Fenway. It’s in fine shape. \*\* Constant renovation. It’s mostly the stuff you don’t see, like the plumbing and electric service. IIRC, there’s some question about the basic structure as well. ---
**Author:** ![nineiron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e56c9b/32.png) [@nineiron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nineiron)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/27 "2003-05-02T13:05:17Z")
OK, then, maybe that is true, but “falling apart” is certainly an overstatement then. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/28 "2003-05-02T13:05:46Z")
In 1964, I read a short article in _The Sporting News_ that accused Yankee Stadium of being designed to favor left-handed pull hitters such as Ruth and Gehrig, and later, of course, Mickey Mantle (OK, I know he was a switch-hitter), Yogi Berra, and Roger Maris. The writer pointed out that, while both teams were playing in the same park, of course, the Yankees played 81 games in the Stadium while each opponent played only 9. Charles Finley, the owner of the Kansas City A’s (after the team was no longer a Yankees’ subsidiary–see the _Baseball Hall of Shame),_ tried to rebuild the fences at Municipal Stadium in Kansas City to duplicate the foul lines at Yankee Stadium. Joe Cronin, the Al President, refused to allow any other park to have the dimensions of Yankee Stadium and threatened Finley if he did not back off. The Yankees, of course, won the pennant that year. (Gabe Paul of the Cleveland Indians said it was the Yankees’ talent that won them so many pennants. Paul said this shortly before he sent the Indians’ relief ace Pedro Ramos to New York. The Yankees just barely won the 1964 pennant over the White Sox and the Orioles. I guess Paul knew _where_ the Yankees got talent.) :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Melandry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Melandry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melandry)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/29 "2003-05-02T13:39:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\* > FTR… > > Most hitter friendly: > > Coors Field (Colorado Rockies): > > 2002: 120 > 2001: 120.5 > 2000: 129.5(!!!) > 1999: 127.5 > 1998: 119.5 > > So if you are a .260 hitter in Coors you can expect to hit .312. > > God help us. \*\* It’s my understanding that this is due to the thinner air at the high altitude. Is that correct? Or just bullcrap? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/30 "2003-05-02T13:45:21Z")
Well, even though Yankee Stadium was built to favor left-handed power hitters, the fact is that Babe Ruth hit most of his homers on the road, not at Yankee Stadium. He was not a dead-pull hitter, so the short right field was not as much of a benefit to the Babe as people assume. - Interesting story about "the Monster "at Fenway: Legend has it that Yankee owner Dan Topping had a few drinks with the Red Sox owner, and they started talking about how many homers Dimaggio could hit at Fenway, and how many homers Ted WIlliams could hit at Yankee Stadium. The story goes that they agreed to trade Williams for Dimaggio, even up… but sobered up the next morning and called the deal off. Years later, reporter Dick Young asked Dimaggio about that, and Dimaggio replied nonchalantly that the trade wouldn’t have helped either man much. Dimaggio thought that Fenway was already an ideal park for a lefty like Williams to hit home runs in, while the Monster was much like “Death Valley” (the deep left-center field of Yankee Stadium): both prevented right-handers from hitting the ball out of the park very often. Dimaggio was a very confident guy, mind you, and was sure he’d have hit 60+ homers every year if he’d played in Ebbetts Field… but he didn’t regard Fenway Park as a great place to hit homers. While Fenway is definitely a great hitter’s park, it is NOT ideally suited for right-handed power hitters. If, say, Harmon Kilibrew had played at Fenway, the Monster would have turned many of his homers into doubles or just loooong singles. Lefties have an easier time hitting homers at Fenway. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/31 "2003-05-02T13:54:23Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s my understanding that this is due to the thinner air at the high altitude. Is that correct? Or just bullcrap? Unless a lot of us have been seriously misled, yes, it’s true. There’s a column about it if I remember. The ball travels a farther at high altitude. And perhaps more importantly, pitches don’t break as much in the thinner air. I think I recall Peter Gammons or someone on ESPN offering this as an explanation of why the Rockies can’t, and never really have, hit on the road. The pitches look totally different half the time. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/32 "2003-05-02T14:21:40Z")
Yes, given that the same thing happens in Colorado Springs I’d go with the consensus that Coors Field is an extreme park due to the thinner air at altitude. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_John\_of\_Babylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7c8e57/32.png) [@Dr\_John\_of\_Babylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_John_of_Babylon)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/33 "2003-05-02T14:30:19Z")
This might be an apocryphal story, but nevertheless, to your point, Dougie Monty– Ever the maverick, Charles Finley had a line painted across the Kansas City outfield to mark where the Yankee Stadium fence was located. Then, when any fly ball was caught behind the line, the PA announcer was instructed to say “That ball would have been a home run in Yankee Stadium.” As I remember reading about this, the Minnesota Twins came to town to play the A’s, and in one inning hit back-to-back-to-back homers. The next batter up hit a fly behind the line in right, and the PA announcer dutifully intoned “That ball would have been a home run in Yankee Stadium.” At that point, Finley changed his mind about having that announcement made. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/34 "2003-05-02T14:42:11Z")
A link that many in thread will enjoy … [Ballpark configuration diagrams](http://home.earthlink.net/~losclems/Baseball/Structures.html) … from the Baker Bowl and Fenway Park to Pac Bell Park. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/35 "2003-05-02T15:41:58Z")
Great site, **bordelond**. I wanted to see the page for Sick’s Stadium, but link is broken (which seems fitting, somehow). I’ve never seen a diagram of the Polo Grounds before. 258’ down the right field line and 483’ to straightaway center, what the hell were they thinking? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/36 "2003-05-02T15:57:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > \*\* > Interesting story about "the Monster "at Fenway: Legend has it that Yankee owner Dan Topping had a few drinks with the Red Sox owner, and they started talking about how many homers Dimaggio could hit at Fenway, and how many homers Ted WIlliams could hit at Yankee Stadium. The story goes that they agreed to trade Williams for Dimaggio, even up… but sobered up the next morning and called the deal off. > \*\* I heard a different story about the end of that deal. The version I heard was that the Sox, seeing as how Williams was younger and (though it pains me as a Yankee fan to say this ) a better hitter, decided to ask for another player to even out the deal. He wanted some nobody rookie the Yanks had in the outfield by the name of Berra. Yanks turned 'em down, end of deal. I can’t vouch for the accuracy of my version, however. In the end, however, if that deal had gone through, I think the fans in both cities would have been clamoring for both Topping’s and Yawkey’s heads. And **Robot Arm** , if you think the Polo Grounds were bad, how about the [url=“[http://home.earthlink.net/~losclems/Baseball/MemorialColiseum.html](http://home.earthlink.net/~losclems/Baseball/MemorialColiseum.html)”]Coliseum ```auto . Essentially, it was baseball played in an Olympic track stadium. 251 down the LF line, 420 to "LF-CF" and 380 to "dead center" (which wasn't). Zev Steinhardt ``` ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/37 "2003-05-02T16:11:43Z")
Yeah, I’ve heard about the Memorial Coliseum before (although my copy of _The Baseball Hall of Shame_ seems to have gone missing at the moment). At least the short fence there was 42’ high, and made of chicken wire so the people behind it could see. But that was a temporary aberration while Dodger Stadium was being built. The Polo Grounds happened on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/38 "2003-05-02T17:05:50Z")
Coors Field is a hitter’s park for several reasons: 1. Thin air allows ball to travel farther in the air, more home runs 2. Huge outfield forces outfielders to play further apart and allows more balls to get into the gaps, hence more doubles and triples 3. Thin air also makes ground balls travel faster through the infield. More singles 4. Thin air gives curve balls and other breaking pitches less break. Hence, easier pitches to hit. Knuckleballs are almost useless in Denver. The Rockies could be a good team if they got very, very good hitters. Guys who would hit .450 at Coors and .350 on the road. But Barry Bonds is already taken. Instead the Rockies still fall for the illusion that some guys are good hitters (like Dante Bichette or Vinny Castilla) when that difference is all illusory. ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/39 "2003-05-02T17:41:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exgineer \* > \*\*Constant renovation. > > It’s mostly the stuff you don’t see, like the plumbing and electric service. > > IIRC, there’s some question about the basic structure as well. \*\* I have a hard time believing that any complaints about fenway have anything to do with anything other than seating capacity. You’re now throwing out plumbing and electric. What makes you think ANYTHNG at all is wrong with fenway’s plumbing and electric service? And the “basic structure”? Is it about to fall down? ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512/40 "2003-05-02T18:18:18Z")
Fenway is not “about to fall down,” but it’s really not in good shape overall. The thing was built in 1912 or so, and had more than one period when maintenance was pretty slipshod. When the wooden bleachers along the left line burned down the Sox couldn’t even afford to have the rubble cleared for a few years. Fenway is my favorite park and it pains me to say it, but that doesn’t change anything. It’s not an active hazard, but it’s not good either. Believe me, I’m also unhappy about seating capacity, as well as the lovely view I get when my seat happens to be behind a column. But hey, it’s an old park. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-baseball-commissioner-allow-the-monster-wall-at-fenway-park/172512.md?page=3)