# Why does the most popular beer in almost any country always suck? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** beer\ **Created:** [February 25, 2019, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163 "2019-02-25T04:53:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/101 "2019-02-27T17:40:03Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > A generally excellent post, however the homebrewer in me has to clarify: > > 1. Lager Yeasts. In the late 1800s,[the head of the Carlsberg Brewing Laboratory](https://stkillian.com/beers/carlsberg/), Emil Christian Hansen, pioneered a ground-breaking method for propagating pure yeast. The resulting yeast, aptly named “Saccharomyces Carlsbergensis” would revolutionize the brewing industry. In fact, the yeast’s effect on the beer was so extraordinary that Carlsberg chose to share the yeast with the world by giving it away to other brewers for free. To this day, whenever and wherever you enjoy a lager, there’s probably a little Carlsberg in it. Oh, for sure! Wasn’t Emil Hansen the guy who smuggled the yeast out of Bavaria in his hat? ISTR that the lager yeasts were sort of a landrace kind of thing from southern Germany developed through centuries of fermenting and maturing beer in caves, and that Hansen merely isolated the specific strain and propagated that. > [@China\_Guy](#): > > 1. One could argue that Prohibition was the biggest weakening of the US mass market for beer. I may have it backward- I was remembering that Prohibition and WWII were the double-whammy that took US beer from something recognizable as a pilsner to what it is today, but thought it was WWII that was the bigger impact. > [@China\_Guy](#): > > 1. It’s not physically possible that an OG of 1030 can produce the Budweiser ABV of [5.0%](https://www.budweiser.com/en/our-beers.html). The formula is [ABV = (OG - FG) \* 131.25](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_(alcoholic_beverage)). For example, if 1.030 - 1.005 \* 131 = 3.275 (and I would be really surprised if Bud FG is below ~1.010). It was more of a WAG; I looked at the BJCP guidelines for Lite American lager and chose the lower side of the range (it’s 1.030-1.040). ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/102 "2019-02-27T17:51:03Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m not entirely sure that’s true. I mean, it may be – but for me, the thing that distinguishes mass-market Euro beer from American beer is more the maltiness of the brew, rather than the hops. They’re both pretty low-hopped beers. But Euro lagers seem to have a bit more “chew” and grainy flavor to them. Like take a Polish Tyskie or Zywiec or German Bitburger or Warsteiner. All middle-of-the-road, but they seem to have a more malt-grain depth of flavor to them to me, rather than hops. I don’t find Euro beer particularly hoppy at all. Not particularly hoppy, just more hoppy than mass-market American lagers. To use an example, Heineken is more hoppy than say… Budweiser. Based on some googling, Heineken is around 20-23 IBU, which is NOT hoppy, but standard Budweiser and Bud Light are down near 10 somewhere. Kronenbourg, Stella Artois, and Beck’s all come out in that 20-ish IBU range as well. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/103 "2019-02-27T18:09:49Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Not particularly hoppy, just more hoppy than mass-market American lagers. > > To use an example, Heineken is more hoppy than say… Budweiser. Based on some googling, Heineken is around 20-23 IBU, which is NOT hoppy, but standard Budweiser and Bud Light are down near 10 somewhere. Kronenbourg, Stella Artois, and Beck’s all come out in that 20-ish IBU range as well. OK, I guess I could see that. My palette is probably desensitized to hops. For me, it’s always been the graininess and “body” of Euro lagers vs American mass market lagers that stood out. But it may be both. I note that my American lager of choice is Sam Adams, which is both maltier and hoppier (at 30 IBUs) than your average mass market lager. I personally notice the maltiness of it, but I have heard others complain about it being “hoppy,” which, honestly, it doesn’t register as such to me. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/104 "2019-02-28T07:02:44Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > What are you considering premium beers? I meant to post “premium priced” beer. Sorry. The cheapola brands of European countries are definitely better than Miller Genuine or Bud at a third the cost. Those 2 are ridiculously overpriced for what they are. But as long as Americans are willing to pay it they’ll get charged it. ---
**Author:** ![Gullibility\_is\_Underated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Gullibility\_is\_Underated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gullibility_is_Underated)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/105 "2019-02-28T15:00:20Z")
Try a blind test of beers you think sucks and beers you think are great. You may be surprised ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/106 "2019-02-28T15:06:00Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > OK, I guess I could see that. My palette is probably desensitized to hops. For me, it’s always been the graininess and “body” of Euro lagers vs American mass market lagers that stood out. But it may be both. I note that my American lager of choice is Sam Adams, which is both maltier and hoppier (at 30 IBUs) than your average mass market lager. I personally notice the maltiness of it, but I have heard others complain about it being “hoppy,” which, honestly, it doesn’t register as such to me. Sounds like you’re an IPA guy! I’m more of a lager guy- pilsners are my favorite, followed by Marzen/Oktoberfest and Vienna lagers. That’s why I’ve read up on them. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/107 "2019-02-28T16:26:50Z")
> [@Gullibility\_is\_Underated](#): > > Try a blind test of beers you think sucks and beers you think are great. You may be surprised In fact, some studies of [blind tasting in wine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_wine_tasting) have shown that people can’t even reliably distinguish white from red, and that members of the general public cannot distinguish expensive from cheaper wines. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/108 "2019-02-28T17:17:46Z")
It’s easier to make a beer that ‘doesn’t suck’ for a lot of people than to make one that’s really good for a lot of people. Mass market beers are designed to be ‘not bad’ for a lot of people’s palette, while more targeted beers are designed to be ‘really good’ or ‘really interesting’ for some people and expect people who don’t like them to buy something else. Whatever is most popular is going to be fairly bland overall and lack whatever high high notes that an enthusiast considers ‘good’, but also lack any of the extremes that a lot of people would turn down. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/109 "2019-02-28T18:27:12Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Sounds like you’re an IPA guy! I’m more of a lager guy- pilsners are my favorite, followed by Marzen/Oktoberfest and Vienna lagers. That’s why I’ve read up on them. I’m all over the map. I do like my IPAs, and I cut my teeth on them about ten, fifteen years ago, but I wouldn’t call them my favorite style. I would say Marzens/Oktoberfest probably fit most closely to my overall favorite style. Vienna lagers, too–something with a kick of maltiness to it. But my tastes change by the weather. I don’t really drink IPAs at all in the fall and winter. Malt is my love for that season. Or a nice Belgian dubbel or quad. (Not as much a fan of trippels.) But if you drop in unannounced, the beers you are most likely to find in my house is either Zywiec or Okocim Polish lager or a sixer of Old Style tall boys. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/110 "2019-02-28T18:38:56Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > But if you drop in unannounced, the beers you are most likely to find in my house is either Zywiec or Okocim Polish lager or a sixer of Old Style tall boys. Ha, less than an hour ago, I bought a 4 pack of 1/2 Liter cans of Okocim (so 2 liters is about a half beer less than a standard US 12 fl. oz 6 pack) in my local market for 6.99 Zloty, which is just under $1.75, and while I am not sure not complaining about life in Krakow, a nice Old Style or two would be mighty welcome around these parts about right now… ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/111 "2019-02-28T18:44:27Z")
> [@Royal\_Nonesutch](#): > > Ha, less than an hour ago, I bought a 4 pack of 1/2 Liter cans of Okocim (so 2 liters is about a half beer less than a standard US 12 fl. oz 6 pack) in my local market for 6.99 Zloty, which is just under $1.75, and while I am not sure not complaining about life in Krakow, a nice Old Style or two would be mighty welcome around these parts about right now… Okocim had a porter that was really sought after by the beer geeks around here as being a great example of the Baltic porter style, but I haven’t seen it in ages. I still see Zywiec’s versions around, which is good, too, but not as good as Okocim. It must simply have stopped being distributed here for some reason, as the beer/wine/spirits megastore carries both Okocim and Zywiec products, but only has the Zywiec porter. Even my local Polish grocery store that has at least a dozen different Polish beers only carries the Zywiec porter, so it must have stopped being distributed here. ETA: That Okocim 4-pack of 1/2 L goes for $4.99 here (sometimes $4.49; sometimes $5.49). I’m jealous! ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/112 "2019-02-28T19:15:52Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Can’t comment on the other countries, but here’s the only reason why Oettinger is the most popular brand in Germany: because it’s the cheapest beer you can get. A case of Oettinger costs about half as much as most other, much better regarded brands. And because a lot of people drink a lot of beer here, it’s not hard to explain. > > ETA: and yes, it tastes awful. Never had a bud so I can’t compare. The cheapest beers in Germany are probably own-brand ones from the big discounters, with odd names that nobody has ever heard of. I thought the biggest seller in Germany is Warsteiner, which tastes pretty much like Heineken if indeed Heineken has much taste at all. US brewers use rice and corn because they are cheaper than malt. As for light beers, I gather that their main advantage is that they get you drunk quicker and more cheaply. Taste is secondary. Dunno what the best selling beer in the UK is, but if it is Watney’s, then 'nuff said. It is said that it passes through your system unchanged. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/113 "2019-02-28T19:18:03Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > You may like many of these movies, but none of them are very complex or challenging. Dude, moving the goalposts is not a way to win a football game. No one said they were complex or challenging. You said that popular movies (and beer, and music, etc.) were BAD. Those movies aren’t bad. Stop digging. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/114 "2019-02-28T19:19:23Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Beers are like Blowjobs. Even a bad one is still pretty good. So you enjoy Biteyourdickoff Lager? ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/115 "2019-02-28T19:34:33Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > ETA: That Okocim 4-pack of 1/2 L goes for $4.99 here (sometimes $4.49; sometimes $5.49). I’m jealous! Every Silver Lining Has A Cloud… I live in mortal fear that Americans will discover en masse how incredibly affordable the cost of living is here in Poland, (for some reason, in particular alcohol) how much the warm, friendly, open Polish people LOVE America and Americans (in particular the truly stunning Polish women) and how dirt cheap flights to other major European cities are, making all of Europe at your doorstep for next to nothing. (as an example, in just the last few months alone, I have flown roundtrip(!), with all taxes and fees included from Krakow to Berlin, Lisbon, Venice, Brussels and Lviv, Ukraine, each time for under $50 USD, and two of those were actually under $20, Berlin and Lviv.) If you are ever back over this way… ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/116 "2019-02-28T20:05:45Z")
> [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > The cheapest beers in Germany are probably own-brand ones from the big discounters, with odd names that nobody has ever heard of. I thought the biggest seller in Germany is Warsteiner, which tastes pretty much like Heineken if indeed Heineken has much taste at all. > > US brewers use rice and corn because they are cheaper than malt. As for light beers, I gather that their main advantage is that they get you drunk quicker and more cheaply. Taste is secondary. > > Dunno what the best selling beer in the UK is, but if it is Watney’s, then 'nuff said. It is said that it passes through your system unchanged. Oh yes, like the dreaded Karlsquell from Aldi. But those come only in plastic bottles, and who wants to fall so low and drink beer from a plastic bottle? So the people drink Oettinger, which comes in regular 0.5 liter glass bottles and is sold in every beverage store and supermarket. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/117 "2019-02-28T20:20:42Z")
Too late to edit: For the heck of it, I googled the most recent statistic about German beer sales, and [this is what I found](https://www.merkur.de/leben/genuss/bier-rangliste-meistverkaufte-biermarken-deutschlands-8568119.html): 01 Krombacher 02 Oettinger 03 Bitburger 04 Veltins 05 Beck’s 06 Paulaner 07 Warsteiner 08 Hasseröder 09 Radeberger 10 Erdinger 11 Augustiner (numbers from 2017) I’m a bit proud because Krombacher is brewed in my region and it’s really good, just like Warsteiner and Veltins. With the exception of Oettinger, all those brands cost about twice as much as Oettinger or the Aldi and Lidl plastic piss, and are quite drinkeable. Mostly pilseners, with the exception of Oettinger and Becks (lagers) and Paulaner, Erdinger and Augustiner (weizen aka weißbier). ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/118 "2019-02-28T20:31:11Z")
Here in Poland (and also in Eastern Deutschland) the German-based supermarket chain Lidl sells their store brand Perlenbacher, which is dirt-cheap, reasonably tasty and is brewed according to the Reinheitsgebot, and here in Krakow for 40 cents (U$D) a 1/2 liter bottle, it’s a budget friendly option for those looking for something a little lighter (just 4.9% ALC) in the hot summertime. (No major Polish beer brand “Macrobrew” that I have ever seen is under 5.4%, and many beers are 6% here, yet somehow without a discernable alcohol aftertaste) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/119 "2019-02-28T20:39:19Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > My WAG is that people actually like that type of beer. No one drinks those beers anymore; they’re too popular. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163/120 "2019-02-28T21:37:08Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Beers are like Blowjobs. Even a bad one is still pretty good. Bad beer and bad blowjobs are both fucking awful. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-most-popular-beer-in-almost-any-country-always-suck/830163.md?page=7)