# Why does The New Yorker hold out for "venders" and "focusses"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 2, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-new-yorker-hold-out-for-venders-and-focusses/366957 "2006-08-02T00:10:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-new-yorker-hold-out-for-venders-and-focusses/366957/1 "2006-08-02T00:10:23Z")
As much as I like _The New Yorker_, I’ve noticed that their editors insist on the spellings “vender” and “focusses”, where most people would probably consider “vendors” and “focuses” to be correct. I find this extremely grating. A cursor search in Google for both variations for each of the two words indicates that less than one out of a hundred would spell it the New Yorker way. Is it just a case of the magazine doing something because they can? Were these spellings more common years ago? Does anyone else do it? ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-new-yorker-hold-out-for-venders-and-focusses/366957/2 "2006-08-02T00:17:52Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] where most people would probably consider “vendors” and “focuses” to be correct. I find this extremely grating. [/QUOTE] It’d be foci in my magazine…then again I “most people” was nothing I ever aspired to. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-new-yorker-hold-out-for-venders-and-focusses/366957/3 "2006-08-02T00:25:32Z")
[QUOTE=Kevbo] It’d be foci in my magazine…then again I “most people” was nothing I ever aspired to. [/QUOTE] I should have been. I meant as a third person singular verb, not a plural noun. I’d say foci for the noun; since the plural only appears, AFAIK, in scientific or technical contexts where everybody would expect “foci”. In more everyday usage, it’s one of those words where the plural almost never comes up. Sort of like “penis” in that regard. There’s hardly ever any occasion to talk about more than one. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-new-yorker-hold-out-for-venders-and-focusses/366957/4 "2006-08-02T02:00:45Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] As much as I like _The New Yorker_, I’ve noticed that their editors insist on the spellings “vender” and “focusses”, where most people would probably consider “vendors” and “focuses” to be correct. I find this extremely grating. [/QUOTE] Most publications and publishers use one of a number of style guides. The New York Times, the AP, the Chicago Manual of Style are the most common. Virtually every publication also has a “house style” in which it customizes the standard style guide to its own tastes. On one book I wrote I was told I had to use the Chicago Manual but then was sent a sheet with about 50 exceptions to those rules. Not being an idiot, I quickly realized that the easiest thing for me to do was to ignore the issue entirely and let the copyeditor make the changes. Style guides do change and update regularly, but it’s an immense burden for everyone involved. You have to learn all these incredible picky details and then unlearn them and learn new ones. That’s why good copyeditors are so prized. And The New Yorker has always prided itself on its incredibly good, finicky, anal, obsessive, nutsoid, take your pick copyeditors. And it developed it own “house style” many years ago which, understandably, it is reluctant to tamper with. Yes, they do it to be distinctive, and yes they do it because they can get away with it, but there are also good underlying reasons for minimal changes to house styles whenever possible. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-new-yorker-hold-out-for-venders-and-focusses/366957/5 "2006-08-02T02:05:46Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] As much as I like _The New Yorker_, I’ve noticed that their editors insist on the spellings “vender” and “focusses”, where most people would probably consider “vendors” and “focuses” to be correct. I find this extremely grating. [/QUOTE] Don’t forget “coöperate” — but it’s best not to get me started on that one. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-new-yorker-hold-out-for-venders-and-focusses/366957/6 "2006-08-02T06:25:55Z")
_The New Yorker_ also likes to spell out numbers (“five thousand eight-two”), and to put titles of books, films, etc. in quotation marks instead of italicizing them. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-new-yorker-hold-out-for-venders-and-focusses/366957/7 "2006-08-02T17:55:47Z")
[QUOTE=MikeS] Don’t forget “coöperate” — but it’s best not to get me started on that one. [/QUOTE] Yeah, that’s the real noticeable oddness. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-new-yorker-hold-out-for-venders-and-focusses/366957/8 "2006-08-02T19:43:33Z")
What’s so odd about using a diaresis mark to indicate that a vowel is to be pronounced in a separate syllable? Sure, most folks probably know how to pronounce “cooperate” anyway, but in other cases (for instance, the constellation Boötes), it might not be so clear. And it’s simplest to apply the same rule to all situations, or you end up having to guess which words the public knows or doesn’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-new-yorker-hold-out-for-venders-and-focusses/366957/9 "2006-08-02T19:51:31Z")
Isn’t it odd that no other major periodical seems to have that dilemma? ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-new-yorker-hold-out-for-venders-and-focusses/366957/10 "2006-08-02T20:09:29Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] What’s so odd about using a diaresis mark to indicate that a vowel is to be pronounced in a separate syllable? Sure, most folks probably know how to pronounce “cooperate” anyway, but in other cases (for instance, the constellation Boötes), it might not be so clear. And it’s simplest to apply the same rule to all situations, or you end up having to guess which words the public knows or doesn’t know. [/QUOTE] It’s odd because that’s not how the word is spelled in English - at least, anywhere outside the _New Yorker_. I’ve read that it used to be a relatively common thing in printed English, but it certainly isn’t anymore. But I’m willing to put up with the _New Yorker_’s little affectations, since it’s such a good read. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-new-yorker-hold-out-for-venders-and-focusses/366957/11 "2006-08-02T22:01:05Z")
Google gives 23,600 hits for coöperate. That’s a fraction of a per cent of cooperate but hardly negligible. Especially online where most people would have to go out of their way to add the diaeresis to the o. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-new-yorker-hold-out-for-venders-and-focusses/366957/12 "2006-08-02T22:12:03Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] Google gives 23,600 hits for coöperate. That’s a fraction of a per cent of cooperate but hardly negligible. Especially online where most people would have to go out of their way to add the diaeresis to the o. [/QUOTE] How do you search for that? When I try, I get the same results as for “cooperate”. Besides, of those, what percentage of them are quoting the _New Yorker_ or older texts that used that style or discussing the style specifically? At any rate, with 3000 times as many hits for “cooperate”, it’s safe to say that it’s a tiny minority of usage. I’m sure there are a few other people who ostentatiously write “reëlect” and “coöperate” but it’s certainly not normal in written English. It’s certainly not taught in any school, and I doubt there’s many publications besides the _New Yorker_ that require it in their style guides.