# Why does the right give a pass to damaging corporate behavior? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 15, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092 "2013-06-15T21:32:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/41 "2013-06-16T16:31:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you proposing that, as part of Obamacare, that piece of legislation should have required no company to rise prices, cut work hours, or change their hiring practices? If not, what, specifically, are you proposing? I do like the part where employers of large companies will have to pay a fine for those full time employees who need to provide their own health insurance or go on Medicaid. I would have also liked to see some sort of thing by which a company with more than x% of part time employees would pay a similar fine, to discourage replacing one full time employee with several part time employees, and also to offset the burden on Medicaid/insurance exchanges. (But that’s like asking what I want when I can’t have what I want. I \*really \*want single payer UHC, which would have avoided this whole issue of employers and health insurance!) And even more than all that, I want companies to \*want \*to do this without government intervention, because I want them to value people over profit - see [Costco](http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-06-06/costco-ceo-craig-jelinek-leads-the-cheapest-happiest-company-in-the-world), see my small business employer who isn’t beholden to the ACA but just got us health insurance anyhow because he wants us to be healthy, see lots and lots of employers who do offer a living wage and workable hours. It’s not impossible, it does happen, but it’s not ubiquitous. I want it to be ubiquitous. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/42 "2013-06-16T16:38:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But just because Company A has figured out how to stay profited on the “right side” doesn’t mean Company B is going to be able to. And if Company B goes out of business, then it’s employees are really screwed. > > Now, that’s an extreme example, but let’s say that Company B’s way of competing with Company A in the new environment is to hire more part-time instead of full-time workers. Is that evil? It’s not evil (perhaps my “EvilCorp” was a bit misleading), but nor is applying regulations. If a company claims they can only turn a profit if they’re allowed to use leaded paint…well, sorry, your business model clearly isn’t workable any more. And as for the jobs, in this hypothetical, if Company A is going to grab Company B’s market share, they’ll probably need to hire people. ETA: The actual thing of hiring more part-time workers I don’t necessarily see as that big a deal. OTOH if they are paying people for PT but getting them to work unpaid overtime such that they are close or even exceeding FT…then that’s a loophole that needs closing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/43 "2013-06-16T18:06:15Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I do like the part where employers of large companies will have to pay a fine for those full time employees who need to provide their own health insurance or go on Medicaid. I would have also liked to see some sort of thing by which a company with more than x% of part time employees would pay a similar fine, to discourage replacing one full time employee with several part time employees, and also to offset the burden on Medicaid/insurance exchanges. > > (But that’s like asking what I want when I can’t have what I want. I \*really \*want single payer UHC, which would have avoided this whole issue of employers and health insurance!) > > And even more than all that, I want companies to \*want \*to do this without government intervention, because I want them to value people over profit - see [Costco](http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-06-06/costco-ceo-craig-jelinek-leads-the-cheapest-happiest-company-in-the-world), see my small business employer who isn’t beholden to the ACA but just got us health insurance anyhow because he wants us to be healthy, see lots and lots of employers who do offer a living wage and workable hours. It’s not impossible, it does happen, but it’s not ubiquitous. I want it to be ubiquitous. Most people in other countries think it’s nuts that we get our Medical Insurance through our employer. This bill makes it even more entrenched in our system. If you want UHC, legislate UHC funded by taxes. Making companies pay for Health Insurance in a system out of control costwise just makes them less competitive in the world market. > [@Mijin](#): > > It’s not evil (perhaps my “EvilCorp” was a bit misleading), but nor is applying regulations. > If a company claims they can only turn a profit if they’re allowed to use leaded paint…well, sorry, your business model clearly isn’t workable any more. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/44 "2013-06-16T18:10:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you want UHC, legislate UHC funded by taxes. Would you have supported such legislation? Would adaher have? I find it disingenuous and hypocritical that right-wingers denounce “liberals” for not passing tax-financed UHC, _when it was GOP intransigence that foisted inferior legislation on America._ ETA: Apologies to Mr. Mace. I use “right-winger” here in the classical sense, _not_ with the post-modern meaning of blathering lunatic. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/45 "2013-06-16T20:09:43Z")
The law accounts for people who don’t get employer health insurance: they go to the exchanges, or they get Medicaid. I see absolutely no reason for anyone to be mad at Wal-mart. The people involved will still get health insurance. Why is it so necessary that Wal-mart pay for what YOU wanted? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/46 "2013-06-16T20:59:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I see absolutely no reason for anyone to be mad at Wal-mart. The people involved will still get health insurance. Why is it so necessary that Wal-mart pay for what YOU wanted? Tomorrow morning, I’m going to tear up the road in front of your house, shut down your power lines, and plug up your sewers. I don’t want that, it doesn’t benefit ME any, so why the hell should I pay for that? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/47 "2013-06-16T21:33:45Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Sadly, and after literally years and countless debates on this subject, you actually don’t seem to have any idea what I think and are ridiculously far off of the mark. It’s more like the strawman comic version of what I think that only bears resemblance to my views in that you put XT in there. > > Plus, like DT you seem to thrive on the liberal dystopian fantasy of long lines of desperate people who are forced, practically at gun point, to work for WalMart in towns that have no other work…perhaps in a hazy, Mad Max-esque landscape where death carts are taking around calling ‘bring out your dead’. Speaking of strawman comic versions.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/48 "2013-06-16T21:34:02Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Walmart’s prices appear to have very little to do with their actual costs, and much more to do with how badly they want to undercut other local businesses. What does this sentence sound like in English? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/49 "2013-06-16T21:46:19Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Tomorrow morning, I’m going to tear up the road in front of your house, shut down your power lines, and plug up your sewers. I don’t want that, it doesn’t benefit ME any, so why the hell should I pay for that? Your analogy isn’t even close. Did you or did you not want single-payer health care? Well, if Wal-mart doesn’t cover people, that’s more people in the single-payer part of the system. So that’s good, right? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/50 "2013-06-16T21:50:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Your analogy isn’t even close. Did you or did you not want single-payer health care? Well, if Wal-mart doesn’t cover people, that’s more people in the single-payer part of the system. So that’s good, right? Ahem. Do you know what puts the “single” in “single payer”? There is no single payer in Obamacare. If there were, no one would have employer health insurance, or individual health insurance for that matter, because there would be a _single payer_, the federal government. Get it? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/51 "2013-06-16T21:55:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The law accounts for people who don’t get employer health insurance: they go to the exchanges, or they get Medicaid. > > I see absolutely no reason for anyone to be mad at Wal-mart. The people involved will still get health insurance. Why is it so necessary that Wal-mart pay for what YOU wanted? So then why get mad at the Evil Liberals? I mean it sounds like a win-win situation to me. Walmart restructures their workforce to whatever makes most economic sense for their business model. The people who don’t get Walmart full time employee health care benefits go on the public exchanges. The system seems to be working as it supposed to. ---
**Author:** ![Crawlspace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Crawlspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crawlspace)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/52 "2013-06-16T22:03:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The law accounts for people who don’t get employer health insurance: they go to the exchanges, or they get Medicaid. > > I see absolutely no reason for anyone to be mad at Wal-mart. The people involved will still get health insurance. Why is it so necessary that Wal-mart pay for what YOU wanted? Walmart wanted it as well. They were a strong supporter of Obamacare, going so far as to write: “We are for shared responsibility. Not every business can make the same contribution, but everyone must make some contribution.” What’s become increasingly clear is that that support was offered with the intention of dumping a large portion of its employees onto the newly expanded roles of Medicaid and shifting the responsibility on to the American tax payer. I for one don’t particularly care how these people get their insurance as long as they get it. But the question at hand is why conservatives are so eager to demonize the government, Obama and liberals in general (to the point of spinning the facts and claiming Walmart is being economically forced to hire disproportionately more part-time and temp workers than before due to costs imposed by Obamacare), while completely glossing over the fact that Walmart supported the piece of legislation it is now using to shift some of its operating cost onto you, the tax payer. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/53 "2013-06-16T22:08:47Z")
> [@Crawlspace](#): > > …the fact that Walmart supported the piece of legislation it is now using to shift some of its operating cost onto you, the tax payer. Seems like good Machiavellian maneuver, when you put it that way. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/54 "2013-06-16T22:14:12Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > So then why get mad at the Evil Liberals? I mean it sounds like a win-win situation to me. Walmart restructures their workforce to whatever makes most economic sense for their business model. The people who don’t get Walmart full time employee health care benefits go on the public exchanges. The system seems to be working as it supposed to. Of course, the exchanges aren’t actually working out as planned, with high costs and likely poor care al around. But that’s irrelevant, because ObamaCare will inevitably be _defined_ as successfully after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![EverwonderWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EverwonderWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverwonderWhy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/55 "2013-06-16T22:32:21Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Of course, the exchanges aren’t actually working out as planned, with high costs and likely poor care al around. But that’s irrelevant, because ObamaCare will inevitably be _defined_ as successfully after the fact. Cite? The exchanges haven’t even gone into effect yet. Not until 2014 and yet poor care at high cost is all around because of it? How does that work, exactly? US healthcare is already high cost for lower quality of care (compared to other OECD nations), this was the current state of affairs before the ACA was ever enacted. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/56 "2013-06-16T22:59:19Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Would you have supported such legislation? Given a choice between a European style UHC system and Obamacare, I’d choose the former. I think the biggest flaw with our system is that is tied to your employment, and Obamcare makes that even more entrenched. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/57 "2013-06-16T23:03:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You expect a “good company” to reduce its profits? Really? YES! A good company is just like a good person. They aren’t greedy. They don’t seek money for its own sake. A good company exists to help society by allowing people access to goods they otherwise wouldn’t have. Making a profit is a side effect, not the main goal. Profits are necessary to get people to invest in you so you can do all these other things. But I know you disagree–because this is the fundamental difference in our politics. So let’s put that aside, and go back to the OP. Walmart is forcing the government to pay for more people. This means that the government will need to find more money. That means increased taxes. Why aren’t conservatives concerned that Walmart’s actions will be driving up their taxes? As pointed out, Walmart lobbied for Obamacare. So you can’t claim that Walmart is just reacting to legislation that was foisted upon them. So why in the world does Walmart get a pass for increasing taxes just because it is a company and not the government–who only did what the people told them to? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/58 "2013-06-16T23:10:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > YES! A good company is just like a good person. They aren’t greedy. They don’t seek money for its own sake. A good company exists to help society by allowing people access to goods they otherwise wouldn’t have. Making a profit is a side effect, not the main goal. Profits are necessary to get people to invest in you so you can do all these other things. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/59 "2013-06-16T23:25:27Z")
Missed the edit window. How can something be both necessary and a “side effect”? We libertarians are clearly much more tolerant. We don’t care why you start a business. Make tons of money? Fine. Help people? Fine. Make your father proud of you? Knock yourself out. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/60 "2013-06-17T01:28:37Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Of course, the exchanges aren’t actually working out as planned, with high costs and likely poor care al around. But that’s irrelevant, because ObamaCare will inevitably be _defined_ as successfully after the fact. Actually the exchanges are beginning to be set up, and the prices are lower than expected. And poor care exists only in your right wing fever dream. It is sure going to be better for those who can’t afford any care now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092.md?page=4)