# Why does the right give a pass to damaging corporate behavior? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 15, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092 "2013-06-15T21:32:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/81 "2013-06-17T08:58:36Z")
**adaher** , you never answered this: > [@septimus](#): > > Should only the war-mongering idiots have had to pay for Bush’s Wars? You implied I was misinterpreting you, but now: > [@adaher](#): > > The GOP is not helping, but it’s not their job to help. The Democrats passed the law by themselves and they have total power to implement it themselves seeing as how they control the White House. Obamacare was passed by the U.S. Congress and became the Law of the Land. How would you have felt if politicians who voted against the Iraq War worked to sabotage it?(\*) … And, BTW, news that they who “control the White House” “have total power to implement” in the U.S. will come as a surprise to anyone who who has even a tiny clue about U.S. realities. (\* I realize that you denied GOP sobatage of Obamare, despite e.g. [Wyoming’s efforts](http://www.naturalnews.com/030995_Wyoming_Obamacare.html). Again this calls your sense of reality into question.) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/82 "2013-06-17T09:08:41Z")
That is also not sabotage. The state legislature of Wyoming did not pass the ACA, nor are they under any obligation whatsoever to enforce it or even assist in any way. Sabotage would involve at the legislative level, making changes to the program to make it function worse, or defunding it. Sabotage at the executive level would involve not implementing it well on purpose. There can be no sabotage at the state level due to the structure of our republic. States can no more sabotage Obamacare than they can sabotage marijuana enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/83 "2013-06-17T10:35:18Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > And we wonder why some people say that the left is dedicated to socialism. No company should pay for anything that is above the wage that the market dictates for that work. If a worker is worth $7.50/hr, then he’s worth $7.50 and the government shouldn’t compel anyone to pay him more. If there are 5 neighborhood kids wanting to cut my grass for $30, should I be forced to pick one and pay him $40? > > Further, why does this made up belief stop at health care? Surely workers need food to eat. Perhaps the government should run a calorie and nutritional analysis on each worker and demand that businesses provide a stipend for food. Workers need a place to live. How about a government mandated stipend for reasonable square footage in the locale? > > Too much? It’s no more absurd than making an arbitrary statement that an employer should have to pay for health insurance. > > Further, Wal-Mart is a publicly traded company. Most of us have that stock in our 401(k) plans. This money is to pay for our retirements, and not for socialist fantasy camps. The board of directors has a fiduciary duty to all of us to maximize profits, and if hiring two people at 20 hours per week at no healthcare versus one employee at 40 hours per week with health care, then that is the duty owed to us. Paying wages above market rate can expose the board to countless lawsuits. > > I would love to live in a society where everyone has access to good things in life, but forcing businesses with the power of the state to provide it hampers the economy and invites these type of work arounds. Interesting, the Catholic Church’s social teaching is that employers have an obligation to pay their workers a living that a business is not just about profits and employees are not just disposable goods. Businesses have a responsibility to the greater community as well. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/84 "2013-06-17T10:46:44Z")
And unless their primary means of support is the amoral government, they tend to fulfill their community obligations. If you look at the worst corporate criminals, you’ll find billions in government support behind them, thus making it unnecessary for them to build up good will in their communities. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/85 "2013-06-17T11:09:59Z")
Some people will go their whole lives as just never quite grasp what other people see in the story _A Christmas Carol_. No amount of explaining will help, because it isn’t a problem that can be resolved rationally. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/86 "2013-06-17T11:24:21Z")
Or nationally. People are generous to those they see. The government tries to impose an unnatural generosity on people, to care for those they cannot see. What ends up happening in such places is that not only does national generosity not happen, but personal generosity tends to dry up to. “It’s not my problem, the government will take care of it!” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/87 "2013-06-17T11:25:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Ah, but as long as there are multiple payers, you recognize that the private ones are superior? Under Obamacare, virtually all payers are private. With the exception of Medicaid, which is only available to the poorest of the poor, there is no government health insurance at all. Please keep up. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/88 "2013-06-17T11:31:58Z")
Medicaid has been expanded to significantly more than the poorest of the poor. So again, what’s the problem? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/89 "2013-06-17T11:48:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Medicaid has been expanded to significantly more than the poorest of the poor. So again, what’s the problem? The problem is your transparently deceptive claim that private health insurance is superior to Obamacare, when the vast majority of healthcare provided under Obamacare is private health insurance. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/90 "2013-06-17T12:13:54Z")
My claim was that private insurance was superior to public. I recognize that most people will get private insurance under Obamacare. Or to be more accurate, most people are supposed to retain their private insurance under Obamacare. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/91 "2013-06-17T12:23:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Medicaid has been expanded to significantly more than the poorest of the poor. So again, what’s the problem? The problem is that you’re believing soundbites that are incorrect and outdated. The states are free to expand or not expand Medicaid within their state. As of a month ago, **[24 states are still planning to not expand Medicaid](http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1672246)**. And in those 26 that do plan to expand Medicaid, almost half of the uninsured still won’t qualify. The new and improved cutoff is 138% of the federal poverty level, or $24,344 for a family of three. I don’t know about where you live, but where I live, a family of three living on $25,000 a year cannot realistically afford private insurance; the $900 a month family of three policy I was just offered through work eats up nearly half that net income. (We don’t yet know what insurance through our exchanges will cost.) And I’ve seen no sign that Medicare or Medicaid are inferior in terms of patient coverage. Medicaid covers more in eye care and dental than most private policies, and while waiting times tend to be longer for doctors that accept Medicaid, the care once you’re finally in the exam room is excellent and current to best practices. My seniors on Medicare get overly \*generous \*coverage, IMHO. They see their primary physicians at least once a month, whether they need it or not. They can see any specialist they want whether or not it’s actually needed, they get virtually unlimited home care not covered by many private insurance plans, they get overprescribed tests and labs drawn more often than actually indicated by best practices. The only thing I see that might be described as “inferior” is that the medications doctors tend to prescribe them are older and therefore cheaper - but that also tends to mean they’re safer, as they’ve been through their Phase 4 post marketing trials and not needed to be withdrawn. Medicare/aid are certainly inferior in terms of timely reimbursement to their providers, but still the majority of physicians favor a true single payer system. What they’d potentially lose in timeliness they’d likely make up in not having to pay so many employees to figure out the convoluted billing of multiple payers. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/92 "2013-06-17T12:28:09Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Medicare/aid are certainly inferior in terms of timely reimbursement to their providers, but still the majority of physicians favor a true single payer system. What they’d potentially lose in timeliness they’d likely make up in not having to pay so many employees to figure out the convoluted billing of multiple payers. Plus, I expect that a majority of doctors will support it simply because it provides superior health care. Even in hypercapitalist America I doubt that the majority of doctors are amoral profit machines. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/93 "2013-06-17T12:55:38Z")
And if the states don’t expand Medicaid, that just means that everyone is eligible for subsidies on the exchanges. No one in this law goes without health insurance if they want it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/94 "2013-06-17T13:15:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > My claim was that private insurance was superior to public. I recognize that most people will get private insurance under Obamacare. Or to be more accurate, most people are supposed to retain their private insurance under Obamacare. That is less accurate. Everyone who gets insurance under the Obamacare exchanges will be on policies from private insurance companies. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/95 "2013-06-17T13:22:48Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > You’ve evaded the question, No, I answered the question. You didn’t ask if I would have supported it in a vacuum. > [@](#): > > repeating only what you’d already revealed. No, I don’t think I have ever expressed that view on this MB in any thread. Certainly not in this one. > [@](#): > > Just to be clear, _ **you would support no version of UHC** _ but might prefer “European style” as a lesser of evils, right? You seem to have some weird definition of “support”. Do you “support” the president? Did you vote for him, or did you just “prefer” him to the alternative? IOW, was he your perfect candidate, and if not, then you didn’t “support” him. > [@](#): > > And now, after refusing to engage in compromise at the time, your team blames “liberals” for passing the only legislation the GOP permitted them too. I don’t have a team, but if I did, it would be the Democrats. I have rarely voted for Republicans in over a decade. You should check your premises from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/96 "2013-06-17T13:28:25Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Speaking of strawman comic versions.:rolleyes: The difference is you were serious, and mine was supposed to be a hyperbolic comic book version…I was talking about DT after all and associating you with him. Perhaps you see the point now, though to me it was pretty obvious. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/97 "2013-06-17T13:35:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > … If you want UHC, legislate UHC funded by taxes. … The above contradicts the first sentence in the next. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > … > No, I don’t think I have ever expressed that view on this MB in any thread. Certainly not in this one. > … > You seem to have some weird definition of “support”. Do you “support” the president? Did you vote for him, or did you just “prefer” him to the alternative? IOW, was he your perfect candidate, and if not, then you didn’t “support” him. > … > You should check your premises from time to time. … I won’t respond to the rest of this bizarre rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/98 "2013-06-17T14:04:44Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > The above contradicts the first sentence in the next. Do you know what the word “you” means? Hint: I does not mean “I”. I am telling that person that if they want UHC, they should legislate for it. I don’t think I’ve expressed the opinion of preferring a European style UHC program over Obamacare on this MB, and if you think that little snippet says that, then we don’t have any reason to continue our discussion. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/99 "2013-06-17T14:24:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Walmart’s prices appear to have very little to do with their actual costs, and much more to do with how badly they want to undercut other local businesses. So in this case, I doubt they’d care. No, their prices have quite a lot to do with costs, as anyone who knows the first thing about the company can attest. If they ignored the issue of cost they’d bleed money so fast it’d be catastrophic. Walmart is, to a very large extent, as much a logistics operation as they are a retailer; their objective is to purchase, move and clear inventory at small margins but in enormous quantities. Errors in figuring those margins are hits to the bottom line. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092/100 "2013-06-17T14:40:39Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > No, their prices have quite a lot to do with costs, as anyone who knows the first thing about the company can attest. If they ignored the issue of cost they’d bleed money so fast it’d be catastrophic. > > Walmart is, to a very large extent, as much a logistics operation as they are a retailer; their objective is to purchase, move and clear inventory at small margins but in enormous quantities. Errors in figuring those margins are hits to the bottom line. Emphasis added. I don’t think people realize that is the key to WalMart’s enormous success. They revolutionized inventory management in a way that FedEx revolutionized package delivery. People seem to take such creativity in the business world for granted, or they hold it in disdain for some reason. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-right-give-a-pass-to-damaging-corporate-behavior/661092.md?page=6)