# Why Does the U.S. Military Hate America? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 4, 2006, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-u-s-military-hate-america/379048 "2006-11-04T01:40:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2006, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-u-s-military-hate-america/379048/41 "2006-11-05T13:16:52Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] I dunno. Which one best describes James Dobson? [/QUOTE] Uh, gay prostitute? ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2006, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-u-s-military-hate-america/379048/42 "2006-11-05T13:26:29Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I would say, however, that I’d be more intersted in what the mid-top level officers have to say about Rumsfeld than the rank-and-fiel soldiers/marines/sailors/airmen. The fomer are in a better position to see what policy is and compare it to what if could or should be. [/QUOTE] I think this is one of great unackowledged truths of our current foreign policy dilemma. I get so tired of people quoting to me what troops in the field think, as if it somehow carries more weight than anyone else’s opinion, or as if those guys knew more about foreign policy just because they joined the military. I think soldiers in the field field don’t deserve to be hung out to dry. That does not equate to blind loyalty for military goals/foreign policy, not does volunteering for the military give a person any more votes come election time than I have. Unfortunately, all too often I see and hear blind loyalty to the current Establishment from military types. I try to be fair to them, since obedience to the chain of command is hammered into them from Day One in the military, and independent thinking is actively discouraged as being counter-productive to military success. But dealing with civilians who don’t understand that gets on my nerves. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-u-s-military-hate-america/379048/43 "2006-11-05T14:47:18Z")
Unfortunately, Bush’s strongest personality trait being sheer pigheadedness, the more people call for him to make a change, the more likely he is to \*refuse \* to make it. We have to remember that he’s not our ruler but our _employee_, and take the decision out of his hands using the methods available to us. [QUOTE=John Mace] You’re just too funny! :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Just pointing out the silliness of posting “I don’t know” in a site devoted to \*fighting \* ignorance. Maybe you get that, maybe you don’t. I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2006, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-u-s-military-hate-america/379048/44 "2006-11-05T14:59:08Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] But by and large many of our top military leaders are digging their heels in. [/QUOTE] Many of the general officers who testified at the House Democrats’ hearing on the war said that Rummy had purged the top ranks of all but yes men. The firing of Gen. Shinseki for testifying that 500-600000 troops would be needed in Iraq was a clear warning. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2006, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-u-s-military-hate-america/379048/45 "2006-11-05T18:19:41Z")
[QUOTE=Lizard] independent thinking is actively discouraged as being counter-productive to military success [/QUOTE] Independent thinking like “the military knew back in 1999 that invading Iraq was going to be a disaster” ([link](http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/04/war.games.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest))? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2006, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-u-s-military-hate-america/379048/46 "2006-11-05T21:15:01Z")
In the aftermath of the estimates that they present [as told in this story,](http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/attack/consequences/2003/0228pentagoncontra.htm)I don’t see how Rummy, Wolfie, _et al_ even have the gall to show their faces. And the thing that is most infuriating is that none of them will be damaged in any material way by their blunders that have needlessly killed and maimed so many and cost so much. Wolfie will continue at his plush World Bank post and still be listened to, and Rummy will go off to some think tank where he can expound on global matters based on his wisdom gained from experience. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-u-s-military-hate-america/379048/47 "2006-11-06T02:11:49Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] Independent thinking like “the military knew back in 1999 that invading Iraq was going to be a disaster” ([link](http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/04/war.games.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest))? [/QUOTE] I’m not talking about at the command level, I mean for the everyday footsoldiers onthe ground, the guys who went through basic training just a year or two ago. The whole point of their training is to teach them to follow orders, no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-u-s-military-hate-america/379048/48 "2006-11-06T20:08:06Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Just pointing out the silliness of posting “I don’t know” in a site devoted to \*fighting \* ignorance. Maybe you get that, maybe you don’t. I doubt it. [/QUOTE] Admitting ignorance is much preferable to the wild-ass guessing that may posters partake of. I’m not accusing anyone in particular; people need to get past the notion that admitting ignorance is bad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-u-s-military-hate-america/379048.md?page=2)