# Why does the United Negro College fund feel the need to lie so egregiously? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 7, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018 "2009-06-07T16:15:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/21 "2009-06-07T19:00:10Z")
I’ve always liked the slogan “a mind is a terrible thing to waste”. But there’s some real irony in the advertisement: The United Negro College fund exists to help universities…but most of the items they list as famous achievements were invented by people who never went to university. They are saying, “Look at this long list of great and wise things done by Afro-Americans who developed their minds without going to college. Now give us money.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/22 "2009-06-07T19:01:23Z")
I’ve read through this thread, twice. I see the rant in the OP. I still have not found the debate. Off to the **BBQ Pit**. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/23 "2009-06-07T19:02:41Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > If a hairbrush was made out of camel hair or sea anenomes or whatever the hell they were made of in the past, and an African American created one that is made out of whatever the hell they’re made of today, would you not credit him with that innovation? Again, the text does not say all these things were “invented” by African Americans. Inventions are almost always a lot more complicated than what our schoolbooks say. Who invented the lightbulb? Thomas Edison? Well, kind of, but a couple dozen other people were involved, too. Who invented movies? Lots and lots of people made independent innovations that resulted in what we know now as movies. Same with airplanes, cars, . . . most things. If an African American somehow contributed to what we think of today when we think of a spark plug, I see absolutely no problem with crediting him for that, even if he didn’t “invent” it. Of course I’m assuming that African Americans had at least something to do with the creation or improvement of these items. If it turns out anything on the list was demonstrably made of whole cloth, I’ll join the chorus here. But if that can’t be proven, I think you guys are overreacting. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/24 "2009-06-07T19:04:24Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > If a hairbrush was made out of camel hair or sea anenomes or whatever the hell they were made of in the past, and an African American created one that is made out of whatever the hell they’re made of today, would you not credit him with that innovation? My hairbrush is made out of plastic, which was not invented by an African-American. So, no, I wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/25 "2009-06-07T19:06:01Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > My hairbrush is made out of plastic, which was not invented by an African-American. So, no, I wouldn’t. The Wright brothers didn’t invent wood or metal or cloth or the engine so I guess they don’t deserve any credit for the airplane, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/26 "2009-06-07T19:24:07Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > The Wright brothers didn’t invent wood or metal or cloth or the engine so I guess they don’t deserve any credit for the airplane, huh? The list did not credit an African-American with an innovation to the hairbrush, but with the invention of it. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/27 "2009-06-07T19:26:37Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Black people have accomplished more than enough without having to add bullshit to the mix.. Man, now someone is claiming that a black person invented bullshit? That is going too far. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/28 "2009-06-07T19:27:40Z")
All I have to say is - “Black” is not equivalent to “African American”! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/29 "2009-06-07T19:37:22Z")
Not only that but it says African American, singular. It was just one really busy black guy who invented all that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/30 "2009-06-07T19:45:17Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > The list did not credit an African-American with an innovation to the hairbrush, but with the invention of it. Where? What am I missing? Show me. I’ve already pointed out twice that the list says innovation. Argent Towers says invention. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/31 "2009-06-07T19:50:09Z")
[QUOTE=Shabazz K. Morton (Eddie Murphy - SNL)] In 1895, at the Tuskagee Institute in Alabama, a black man named George Washington Carver developed a new method of soil improvement through crop rotation to end the South African cultural dependence on cotton alone. As a result, Carver came up with hundreds of industrial uses for the peanut. Meanwhile, one night, he’s having a few friends over to his house for dinner. And one of them leans over and says to Dr. Carver, “Excuse me, George? What’s that you’re putting on your bread?” Carver says, “Oh, that’s nothing but a butter substitute that I made from peanuts. I can’t digest all that animal fat, you know.” So the other fellow tasted it, and he says, “Hmm…this tastes pretty good, man. Mind if we take a peek at the recipe?” And Dr. Carver says, “Take a peek? Man, you can have it. Who’s gonna eat butter made out of peanuts? No, I’m working on a method to compress peanuts into phonograph needles.” So, Professor Carver’s two dinner guests Edward “Skippy” Williamson and Frederick “Jif” Armstrong - two white men - stole George Washington Carver’s recipe for peanut butter, copyrighted it, and reaped untold fortunes from it. While Dr. Carver died penniless and insane, still trying to play a phonograph record with a peanut. [/QUOTE] This has been Black History Minute ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/32 "2009-06-07T19:53:48Z")
The USGA recognizes George Franklin Grant (who was black) as the inventor of the _wooden_ golf tee, but there were several rubber and metal tee designs in use long before Grant, and the modern one-piece tee didn’t appear until 25 years later (and had nothing to do with Grant). I’m not sure you can blame the UNCF for that one, though they are certainly stretching the truth. Dr. Daniel Hale Williams (black guy) is often credited with performing the first cardiac operation (not open-heart surgery), but there were three others who did it before him, according to Wikipedia. I was unaware that Michael Faraday was black, but hey, live and learn. Try to keep in mind that this stuff was probably all written by somebody at an outside ad agency, who more than likely just Googled for “African-American firsts” or somesuch. > [@](#): > > Where? What am I missing? Show me. I’ve already pointed out twice that the list says innovation. Argent Towers says invention. Since the list does not in any way qualify its assertion, it certainly appears as though they are claiming that the first person to use a brush on some hair (or the first person who created a brush and had hair, perhaps) was black. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/33 "2009-06-07T20:01:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Since the list does not in any way qualify its assertion, it certainly appears as though they are claiming that the first person to use a brush on some hair (or the first person who created a brush and had hair, perhaps) was black. I do not read it as claiming that at all. I believe there is fossilized/frozen evidence that cavemen groomed their hair. It just looks to me like a list of things that African Americans contributed to. Not black people, by the way. African Americans. There’s a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/34 "2009-06-07T20:12:23Z")
It says “a mind” is responsible for these things, “the mind of an African-American”. It doesn’t say, “an African-American mind _contributed_ to these things.” The claims may not be lies, but they’re at best disingenuous and at worst deliberately deceptive. ETA: As I noted above, I’m more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that the ad agency responsible just didn’t bother to fact-check before publishing. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/35 "2009-06-07T20:14:01Z")
Oh gimme a break, it’s a small bit of cheerleading from a group that was marginalized and shit on for a few hundred years. It’s not an “egregious lie.” ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/36 "2009-06-07T20:15:05Z")
And by the way, it says a mind was responsible for these innovations. I’m still waiting to see where it claims African Americans invented all these things. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/37 "2009-06-07T20:19:37Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Where? What am I missing? Show me. I’ve already pointed out twice that the list says innovation. Argent Towers says invention. It says \*"A mind is responsible for the traffic light… hairbrush… the fact that each and every one of the wonderful innovations mentioned here came from the mind. The mind of an African-American."\* Does it say “hairbrush” or “plastic [or whatever] hairbrush”? It’s saying the hairbrush was an innovation by the mind of an African-American. That’s the same as saying the hairbrush was invented by an African-American. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/38 "2009-06-07T20:20:42Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Oh gimme a break, it’s a small bit of cheerleading from a group that was marginalized and shit on for a few hundred years. It’s not an “egregious lie.” I fail to see the connection between being marginalized and shit on and publishing factually inaccurate claims in order to drum up donations. Calling it a small bit of cheerleading is fine (although I wouldn’t describe a full page ad in the NYT as such). Excusing the inaccurate portions on the grounds that African-Americans have been getting the shaft, however, is unnecessary and wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/39 "2009-06-07T20:23:45Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > And by the way, it says a mind was responsible for these innovations. I’m still waiting to see where it claims African Americans invented all these things. Really? Perhaps you missed this part. > [@](#): > > Indeed, it’s time to stop and celebrate the fact that each and every one of the wonderful innovations mentioned here came from the mind. The mind of an African American ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018/40 "2009-06-07T20:27:02Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The claims may not be lies, but they’re at best disingenuous and at worst deliberately deceptive. I wonder if the State of New York has a law against deceptive fund-raising practices? I bet they do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-united-negro-college-fund-feel-the-need-to-lie-so-egregiously/499018.md?page=3)